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Old 06-10-2017, 12:54 PM
 
8,886 posts, read 11,671,438 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RP2C View Post
We all know that women and children never lie.
Speaking of children, for some reason I am reminded of the McMartin preschool molestation case. The accused were acquitted in the court of law, but they were convicted by the court of public opinions long before. The whole thing was fueled by the media's thirst for the latest sensational headlines. The accusers, as children, were coached on what to say. Later, as adults, all recanted their stories.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McMartin_preschool_trial

30 Years Later, Key Figures Reflect On McMartin Preschool Case « CBS Los Angeles

What Fueled the Child Sex Abuse Scandal That Never Was?

https://www.nytimes.com/2014/03/10/u...ild-abuse.html
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Old 06-10-2017, 07:13 PM
 
Location: State of Transition
102,066 posts, read 107,036,480 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WiseManOnceSaid View Post
I think, that as with all crimes, if something happens to you, you should report it immediately to the police. If you wait 30 years to report it, well, that's why we have limitations on these things, because there's really no way to prove a crime happened at this point. No rape kit, no eye witnesses, no paper trail, nothing. So if it happened, shame on Cosby, but if I didn't happen and this is a fame/money grab, then shame on the women.

It's funny how these victims always come out in droves after the story hits the media, and not before.

Cosby would have never gone to trial if the media hadn't gotten involved. For better or for worse, he was never going to face trial for these "crimes" until the media started sensationalizing it...
Right. So we should call off the dogs accusing the Catholic church, the men, some reaching retirement age, whose boarding school teachers molested them, and anyone else who had hope of justice for generations-old grievances of assault and molestation in this more enlightened time, and tell everyone to go home and fuggedaboutit, because there's no hope of finding concrete proof (which in many cases, there never was, anyway, which is one reason they didn't think they'd ever be believed in the first place), there's nothing.

Except the testimony of others, sometimes dozens of them, who experienced the same thing during roughly the same era, from the same perps.
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Old 06-10-2017, 07:56 PM
 
783 posts, read 571,942 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bo View Post
The case being pursued has more to do with the fact that a young comedian made a big deal in his act about how the accusations of rape against Cosby were being ignored by the media.

Comedian Hannibal Buress accuses Bill Cosby of being a rapist during show
Some say the case is being pursued because of the statements that Cosby made about the black community getting itself together. It angered a lot of people. And the timing is very suspicious. 30+ years later, all of these women miraculously appear? But only a couple of years after Cosby started calling out people in the black community and making a whole lot of powerful enemies.

For people who don't know what I'm talking about:
Cosby Rips Blacks For Abuse, Poor Parenting
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Old 06-11-2017, 02:24 AM
 
2,301 posts, read 1,872,246 times
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I feel bad for all his victims. But justice won't be done.
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Old 06-11-2017, 10:48 AM
 
1,433 posts, read 1,054,343 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruth4Truth View Post
Right. So we should call off the dogs accusing the Catholic church, the men, some reaching retirement age, whose boarding school teachers molested them, and anyone else who had hope of justice for generations-old grievances of assault and molestation in this more enlightened time, and tell everyone to go home and fuggedaboutit, because there's no hope of finding concrete proof (which in many cases, there never was, anyway, which is one reason they didn't think they'd ever be believed in the first place), there's nothing.

Except the testimony of others, sometimes dozens of them, who experienced the same thing during roughly the same era, from the same perps.
Problem is, while I don't doubt that there were many victims in the Catholic priest abuse cases, old schoolteacher abuse, etc., it is rife for fraud when people who see the huge settlement paydays being handed out they jump on the bandwagon seeing $$$ despite being non-victims. Much like a woman filing false rape claims, it is a real shame for the actual victims who were preyed upon. However, I agree that there has to be some kind of limit on how many years you can go back......memories change, fade or get jumbled after a long time.....it's just too easy for scammers and those with nefarious ideas to take advantage of the system or wackos to come up with bogus stories trying to play the victim and get rewarded for falsities......people who "suddenly remember" they were abused at age 1 or 2, those who only realize it when hypnotized, and those who use supposed "repressed" memories just freed to come up with a victim story and run to a lawyer.
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Old 06-11-2017, 10:56 AM
 
Location: Pittsburgh
29,640 posts, read 34,134,862 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by luckyram View Post
Problem is, while I don't doubt that there were many victims in the Catholic priest abuse cases, old schoolteacher abuse, etc., it is rife for fraud when people who see the huge settlement paydays being handed out they jump on the bandwagon seeing $$$ despite being non-victims. Much like a woman filing false rape claims, it is a real shame for the actual victims who were preyed upon. However, I agree that there has to be some kind of limit on how many years you can go back......memories change, fade or get jumbled after a long time.....it's just too easy for scammers and those with nefarious ideas to take advantage of the system or wackos to come up with bogus stories trying to play the victim and get rewarded for falsities......people who "suddenly remember" they were abused at age 1 or 2, those who only realize it when hypnotized, and those who use supposed "repressed" memories just freed to come up with a victim story and run to a lawyer.
But do you really think that so many people are lining up to have their character dragged through the mud and the court of public opinion, to have their behavior and their intentions scrutinized just to make a quick buck?

When this sort of abuse happens, people are ashamed, they're disgusted, and they're isolated. Oftentimes, like in the Cosby case, the abusers are in a position of power and victims don't think they'll be believed. When they hear that other people went through the same thing, they feel empowered to speak out, because there is safety in numbers.
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Old 06-11-2017, 11:15 AM
 
Location: Type 0.73 Kardashev
11,110 posts, read 9,741,042 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by anonimuso View Post
Some say the case is being pursued because of the statements that Cosby made about the black community getting itself together. It angered a lot of people. And the timing is very suspicious. 30+ years later, all of these women miraculously appear? But only a couple of years after Cosby started calling out people in the black community and making a whole lot of powerful enemies.

For people who don't know what I'm talking about:
Cosby Rips Blacks For Abuse, Poor Parenting
Only 'a couple of years'?

The article you cite is from 2004 - over ten years before the first allegations against Cosby surfaced. So, the timing of more than a decade after is 'very suspicious' to you? Here's a clue - any timing of more than a decade isn't 'timing' at all. It's just two events widely separated in time.

Why are you falsely portraying a time-span of more than a decade as 'only a couple of years'?

Whyever, I'm sure the rapist appreciates your disinformation campaign on his behalf.
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Old 06-11-2017, 11:40 AM
 
Location: State of Transition
102,066 posts, read 107,036,480 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by luckyram View Post
Problem is, while I don't doubt that there were many victims in the Catholic priest abuse cases, old schoolteacher abuse, etc., it is rife for fraud when people who see the huge settlement paydays being handed out they jump on the bandwagon seeing $$$ despite being non-victims. Much like a woman filing false rape claims, it is a real shame for the actual victims who were preyed upon. However, I agree that there has to be some kind of limit on how many years you can go back......memories change, fade or get jumbled after a long time.....it's just too easy for scammers and those with nefarious ideas to take advantage of the system or wackos to come up with bogus stories trying to play the victim and get rewarded for falsities......people who "suddenly remember" they were abused at age 1 or 2, those who only realize it when hypnotized, and those who use supposed "repressed" memories just freed to come up with a victim story and run to a lawyer.
Those school cases aren't about "suddenly remembering". People live with the effects of trauma the rest of their lives. In some cases, it affected their life trajectory in a serious way, and handicapped them. The problem with those types of cases is that it's difficult for children to speak up against adult authority figures. And of course, like the women dealing with a celebrity, they wouldn't expect to be believed. So how much time should we give them, to mature and pull together their resolve, and speak up? And what proof could there ever be? It would still be a "we said, he said" kind of thing.

Why have all these cases: the church-related ones, boarding schools, collective rape cases, coming up now, in the 21st Century? Because back when it all happened, that stuff was very hush-hush and shameful, something that just wasn't spoken about. It was a different era, the era of sweeping everything under the rug, and not challenging authority. Now we have a more open society, that acknowledges that authority figures can have a dark side.

Maybe one solution to the dilemma you cite of the financial incentive, would be to limit that part of it, so it's more about justice than money? I doubt that's a big motivator to people who have suffered from the lasting effects of trauma; part of the healing process is having an opportunity to tell one's truth, and be believed, and to see the perp get his due. But you're saying the financial incentive could motivate false witness, so maybe eliminating the financial incentive would be the way to go....? I'm just thinking out loud, here.
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Old 06-11-2017, 12:03 PM
 
1,433 posts, read 1,054,343 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruth4Truth View Post
Those school cases aren't about "suddenly remembering". People live with the effects of trauma the rest of their lives. In some cases, it affected their life trajectory in a serious way, and handicapped them. The problem with those types of cases is that it's difficult for children to speak up against adult authority figures. And of course, like the women dealing with a celebrity, they wouldn't expect to be believed. So how much time should we give them, to mature and pull together their resolve, and speak up? And what proof could there ever be? It would still be a "we said, he said" kind of thing.

Why have all these cases: the church-related ones, boarding schools, collective rape cases, coming up now, in the 21st Century? Because back when it all happened, that stuff was very hush-hush and shameful, something that just wasn't spoken about. It was a different era, the era of sweeping everything under the rug, and not challenging authority. Now we have a more open society, that acknowledges that authority figures can have a dark side.

Maybe one solution to the dilemma you cite of the financial incentive, would be to limit that part of it, so it's more about justice than money? I doubt that's a big motivator to people who have suffered from the lasting effects of trauma; part of the healing process is having an opportunity to tell one's truth, and be believed, and to see the perp get his due. But you're saying the financial incentive could motivate false witness, so maybe eliminating the financial incentive would be the way to go....? I'm just thinking out loud, here.
THAT would be ideal!!....it would mostly weed out anyone looking for a bogus payday....BUT....what legal firm/lawyer would take it up without the promise of getting financial rewards??....and who would pay them...the victims??.....that's ridiculous (and would keep other true victims from coming out if they had to pay for legal representation). So unless there's a crack bunch of lawyers willing to do all the representation pro bono, it wouldn't work.

Regarding the "suddenly remembering" and "I'm a victim too" thing, there are numerous examples out there of it happening...the most famous being the McMartin preschool case in which children (along with parents) became involved in a hysteria of outlandish claims that never happened that grew worse & worse and involved more kids...a sort of mass hype/hysteria that snowballed based on almost entirely false claims:

https://www.nytimes.com/2014/03/10/u...buse.html?_r=0


"Starting in 1983, with accusations from a mother whose mental instability later became an issue in the case, the operators of a day care center near Los Angeles were charged with raping and sodomizing dozens of small children. The trial dragged on for years, one of the longest and costliest in American history. In the end, lives were undone. But no one was ever convicted of a single act of wrongdoing. Indeed, some of the early allegations were so fantastic as to make many people wonder later how anyone could have believed them in the first place.

Did McMartin have any lasting effects? In some respects, yes. Teachers across America grew afraid to hug or touch their students, out of fear of being misunderstood and possibly being brought up on charges. A widely held notion that young children do not lie about such matters took a huge hit. Some are vulnerable to implanted memories. In the McMartin case, many jurors found that leading questions from therapists steered impressionable children toward some of the most macabre tales.

Of course, child abuse was then, and is now, an appalling reality in this country. So is false memory. The tricky part is sorting out which is which."
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Old 06-11-2017, 12:25 PM
 
10,787 posts, read 8,687,718 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by anonimuso View Post
Somebody get Johnny Cochran. If he can get O.J. off, he can get Grandpa Pudding Pop off.


"If she did not sip (the spiked drink), then you must acquit."
Cochran died years ago.
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