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Otto had essentially major amounts of dead brain tissue due to a lack of oxygen - doctors cannot ascertain how that happened or under what circumstances.
I know I will be flamed and broiled for saying this after how so much of the thread here has gone on and on about going to North Korea was a poor choice, but I want to believe that Otto's death was not in vain. The way he was pushed through a farce of a trial and the way he was suddenly shipped home to die is a damning revelation and indictment of how North Korea is a Holocaust in operation. Disabled children are subjects of "experiments" under North Korean versions of Dr. Mengele as was the case during the Holocaust, meanwhile North Korea children, women, and men are being tortured and killed for no reason other than to exert the regime's control over its citizens, and the world moves on barely noticing except maybe a sympathetic nod or two, and we go on.
People are familiar with the horror that is North Korea. But what is anyone supposed to do about it? You know damn well that if the US moves in to take Kim Jong-un out and topple the regime/save NK, which would obviously probably also result in countless of innocent lives lost, we'll be crucified for it. You also know damn well that no one else has the balls to get involved. So what's the solution? I mean, we could totally go in anyway and "fix" it and just deal with the flak. Not like we haven't done that before. I just wish other countries, like those in that region, would step up for once. China needs to reign in its rabid little lap dog. We can help South Korea, I guess, but SK should lead it. Japan could get involved. The UN could make itself useful for once. The people of NK could of course revolt but it's not easy. It also won't be easy to secretly try to help them do so, like by supplying weapons. It would never work.
I totally agree that North Korea is under a terrible regime but the question is, what can we do? What can anyone do? There are things we can do, but people won't be happy. People won't be happy either way, though, because people aren't happy now.
I agree with everything you have said, except for the part about Otto's death not being in vain. Of course it was in vain!
It's not in vain if it wakes even one naive kid up to the reality of the terrible chance they're taking if they decide to visit North Korea (or any of the other countries that have serious State Department travel warnings) just because it sounds "exciting" and some stupid tour company is promoting the trip as safe.
People are familiar with the horror that is North Korea. But what is anyone supposed to do about it? You know damn well that if the US moves in to take Kim Jong-un out and topple the regime/save NK, which would obviously probably also result in countless of innocent lives lost, we'll be crucified for it. You also know damn well that no one else has the balls to get involved. So what's the solution? I mean, we could totally go in anyway and "fix" it and just deal with the flak. Not like we haven't done that before. I just wish other countries, like those in that region, would step up for once. China needs to reign in its rabid little lap dog. We can help South Korea, I guess, but SK should lead it. Japan could get involved. The UN could make itself useful for once. The people of NK could of course revolt but it's not easy. It also won't be easy to secretly try to help them do so, like by supplying weapons. It would never work.
I totally agree that North Korea is under a terrible regime but the question is, what can we do? What can anyone do? There are things we can do, but people won't be happy. People won't be happy either way, though, because people aren't happy now.
China and SK are stepping in/up - just not at the US timetable or with western rhetoric.
They know full well what they are dealing with and they are playing the long game - wait for the regime to crumble from within. That may result in millions suffering in NK but why is that any less preferable than millions suffering from a hasty military solution ? In reality it is more their problem (China and South Korea) because they are it's closest neighbors.
US leadership needs to not provoke the fat, adolescent bully with big guns any more than our allies want. Such a policy does not imply weakness but rather wisdom and patience.
People are familiar with the horror that is North Korea. But what is anyone supposed to do about it? You know damn well that if the US moves in to take Kim Jong-un out and topple the regime/save NK, which would obviously probably also result in countless of innocent lives lost, we'll be crucified for it. You also know damn well that no one else has the balls to get involved. So what's the solution? I mean, we could totally go in anyway and "fix" it and just deal with the flak. Not like we haven't done that before. I just wish other countries, like those in that region, would step up for once. China needs to reign in its rabid little lap dog. We can help South Korea, I guess, but SK should lead it. Japan could get involved. The UN could make itself useful for once. The people of NK could of course revolt but it's not easy. It also won't be easy to secretly try to help them do so, like by supplying weapons. It would never work.
It's hard to figure what you imagine the solution to be. Yes, the U.S. would be crucified - and rightly so - for doing something as idiotic as attempting regime change by force. This is why, obviously, the U.S. has not and will not (not condemnation as much as that it not be in American interests in myriad ways).
While the quality of the North Korean military is, to put it mildly, suspect, it can still do significant damage on its way down. For one, Seoul - a metropolitan area of 25 million people with an annual GDP of over $900 billion, lies 35 miles from the border and within range of over 1000 North Korean artillery pieces. They are a Sword of Damocles hanging over South Korea. Artillery is very simple weaponry, extremely easy to make and use. Using those guns alone, North Korea could to catastrophic damage to the South Korean capital before every piece could be silenced. And that's not even accounting for their short-range missiles. Or their medium-range missiles. Or their nuclear weaponry, to the extent that they may be able to deliver it. Could they? That remains uncertain. It's easy to sit back in CONUS and demand that someone else roll the dice, but most people - soldiers and citizens of the region - don't care to see that gamble made.
As for China, they simply want to keep the regime from collapsing, which would create a humanitarian disaster as refugees flooded over the border. As far as Beijing being able to somehow snap its fingers and have Pyongyang obey, you have a woeful misunderstanding of North Korea if you think they do China's bidding.
Oh... and South Korea 'leading' the way into North Korea? That's hilarious, for the simple fact that they have no means to do so. Japan even less so. And those two countries would have to be out of their minds to do something so self-destructive.
I also have to laugh at the idea that 'we've' 'fixed' things like that before. I wonder how Iraq and the Middle East are 'fixed'? Because they're not. Thousands of American lives and $1 trillion was spent, and the country is now an Iranian ally, is undemocratic, and is so unable to control its own land that ISIS happily filled the resulting vacuum.
And therein lies the problem. There is no 'solution' that isn't hideously expensive in both blood and treasure as well as being strategic disastrous.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JerseyGirl415
I totally agree that North Korea is under a terrible regime but the question is, what can we do? What can anyone do? There are things we can do, but people won't be happy. People won't be happy either way, though, because people aren't happy now.
What we can do is practice containment and wait out the regime. In the meantime, we await either some sort of indigenous reform or collapse, incentivizing the former and mitigating the latter, should it occur.
Anyone who thinks 'we' can 'fix' North Korea really hasn't been paying attention for the last several decades.
I don't know what the solution is but I don't think there's a viable short-term one. So people in NK will continue to suffer and the world - anyone who feels bad for the people - will just have to deal. Life truly isn't always fair and the people born in North Korea are just... unlucky.
The best option at this time would probably have to come from within NK itself. From what I can tell reading about the country and watching countless documentaries on it, citizens are starting to realize what's going on in NK and what's going on outside as well, and the staggering differences. I believe the time will come when people will try something.
I know we can't "fix" it. That's why I put it in quotes.
Travel agency is not to blame. They did not guarantee that nothing bad would happen on the tour. No travel agency can guarantee this. I suspect Otto's parents paid for the trip, since they stated Their son is had convinced them to let him go, since his friends had gone there. If so, they were enabling their son's bad choices. If Otto didn't have his own money to pay for the trip, he would have been better off working a job waiting tables, here in the US, while waiting to return to college. But I suppose that choice is too ordinary and "dull" for a lot of college students these days.
I did not blame the travel company for everything. I said the travel company is guilty of misrepresentation and false advertising when they advertise travel to NK as "completely safe for Americans." Read the website and the FAQ from the tour owners.
I have no idea why you're attacking college students in general. That is odd.
I just read this---Otto Warmbier, the 22-year old student held captive in North Korea for over a year, has died. He was released last week and sent home via air ambulance. He had been in a coma for over a year.
He had been in a coma for about a year, the cause of which was not determined. His parents were not informed of his medical condition until just about a week ago, right before he was sent home. They said his brain was 90% destroyed, and there was little hope for a recovery. Just be thankful he is now in the arms of the angels, and his parents have closure.
This whole story has truly hit me hard, as I have a son about that age. To have him returned to you like that, I can't begin to imagine. God decided this is too much to bear and took him home. God rest his soul!
Last edited by MaryleeII; 06-19-2017 at 05:01 PM..
I just wonder if that's why crazy North Korea decided NOW was the time to release him; so he didn't die on their soil. OR - as the poster below states; perhaps the parents made the decision to let him go.
Either way, it's just sad.
As the mother of a 22 year old young man - I can tell you they don't always think before they leap. He's a good kid; works and gets great grades in college 6 hours way but still . . .I'm not sure how old Otto was when he went to NK but anywhere between 18 and now . . .young men just don't think like we do.
Young people in general (I can remember when I felt this way) always think nothing bad will happen.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tanker-yanker
Did his parents pull the plug to set him free?
They didn't say.
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Otto Warmbier died
