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Old 07-17-2017, 11:46 AM
 
10,337 posts, read 5,813,594 times
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If you don't need police intervention, don't call them. If someone needs counseling, call a counselor, good luck getting them to go. If the parents aren't able to calmly talk their son into giving up the weapon, who's supposed to be able to? Did the parents allow entry? Did they say: "wait right here, let us go in first?"

 
Old 07-17-2017, 11:52 AM
 
8,012 posts, read 8,166,557 times
Reputation: 12159
Quote:
Originally Posted by seain dublin View Post
Exactly, imagine a tank coming up your back steps.




Really? Ever hear of the Reagan Democrats? Probably not.

I know plenty of people who are middle of the road to conservative who have noticed and commented on how there has been a shift with the police and not a good one.

BTW it was under Obama that the police have gotten so miltarized. It's ridiculous some of the equipment these police forces now have and what they cart it out for.

This is a perfect example. It's becoming very Orwellian. And that impacts everyone, doesn't matter how you lean politically.
No it was under Obama that you first heard of the police being so militarized. It has been this way for decades. The media just didn't care until recently.
 
Old 07-17-2017, 12:20 PM
 
Location: NW Nevada
18,123 posts, read 15,512,307 times
Reputation: 17108
Quote:
Originally Posted by phetaroi View Post
So do we citizens.

Exactly. This situation highlights how LE has gone into the realm of absurdity in response to a given situation. The public is now classified as the enemy. The thinking being that just like the Viet Cong and Taliban there are enemy fighters hiding in plain sight. I'm surprised that given the current trends that single officer patrols are even allowed. Are we even that far off of squad sized patrols riding in light armor carrying rifles and handguns as standard gear? Maybe even fixed, belt fed weapons mounted on patrol vehicles? With everything else LE is justifying as "needed" to stay safe why not M249 SAWs?

In a lot of cases LE is practically indistinguishable from forward deployed combat soldiers. The case here is an example. There is a story coming up on the news as I write this about a woman who called 911 for help and the police have shot and killed her. This should be interesting to hear the justification for. It seems that every situation officers respond with a mindset that they are in fear for their lives. They are ready to go to their weapon as soon as they strap on their belts. The Dodge City analogy that so many people apply to citizens who carry seems more appropriate to LE.

As a person with a CCW, I feel more concern over possible interaction with LE than I do a violent criminal. I figure if I am accosted by police for any reason I had better put my hands on my head and loudly announce that I am armed and have a CCW. And freeze like a block of ice. I have never much cared for open carry, but anymore it seems more attractive. That way the fact that I am armed is out in the open so there are no potential surprises. The problem with that is the possibility some ignorant non local will dial 911 and report a person with a gun and blow up someone who is carrying open and legal as an active shooter.

I have to say that interaction with police makes me more nervous than strolling a bad neighborhood at night any more. The new story about the woman who was shot after dialing 911 is up next. Happened in Minneapolis. They say the officer fired from his car. The circumstances of this should prove interesting, as will the depts response.
 
Old 07-17-2017, 01:16 PM
 
14,984 posts, read 23,754,305 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vector1 View Post
That is a clear case of false equivalency. It matters not that some crab fisherman faces a higher mortality rate, as his job description does not require him to respond to dangerous situations based on calls for help/assistance.`
That is not "false equivalency" at all, you are using that term incorrectly. The comparison is simple - what is the most dangerous job. We aren't introducing additional factors here, we aren't presenting anticdotes - just comparing jobs and homicide rates while on the job regardless of what the function is. The fact is a police officer's job, taken as a whole, is not that dangerous.

I believe most LEO fatalities on the job are from traffic accidents anyways, not homicide.
 
Old 07-17-2017, 01:25 PM
 
16,979 posts, read 21,613,699 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe33 View Post
Every Job has risks. If you dont like the risks, dont take the job.

You act like they shouldnt do anything. .
1. I get the risks but "despondent young man with a gun" is a significant risk.
2. I don't believe they should have left/done nothing as they would then be blamed for that.

The report isn't done yet.......its possible kid popped himself long before cops started ramping up the countermeasures. Several outlets report no shots were heard.....How could all those cops not hear the gunshot if it happened at the height of the incident?
 
Old 07-17-2017, 01:54 PM
 
Location: NW Nevada
18,123 posts, read 15,512,307 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by City Guy997S View Post
1. I get the risks but "despondent young man with a gun" is a significant risk.
2. I don't believe they should have left/done nothing as they would then be blamed for that.

The report isn't done yet.......its possible kid popped himself long before cops started ramping up the countermeasures. Several outlets report no shots were heard.....How could all those cops not hear the gunshot if it happened at the height of the incident?

No, doing nothing was not an option. But an armored assault team, regional response and full heavy tactical equipment seems a bit much. As for not hearing shots, there's a lot of explanations for that. The walls of the house, all the noise on scene, the kid could have used something to muffle the gun like a pillow. That a single suicide shot wasn't heard doesn't surprise me.
 
Old 07-17-2017, 02:13 PM
 
Location: Buckeye, AZ
38,936 posts, read 23,713,186 times
Reputation: 14125
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phyxius View Post
The parents didn't call the cop. His ex-girlfriend did. He had a conversation with her that led to the events.

The moral of story, you break up with someone, the sun will go down and rise again tomorrow.

I think everyone involved is at fault. The police obsession with role-playing a scene out of an action film, the ex-girlfriend who went to the police first instead of letting the parents deal with the son and the parents for not doing enough sooner.
It sounded like this. The issue is because of all the different active shooter situations and triggers, police have to take threats seriously if they are tipped. One prevented the death of cops and an actor at Phoenix Comic-Con in May.
 
Old 07-17-2017, 02:17 PM
 
Location: Buckeye, AZ
38,936 posts, read 23,713,186 times
Reputation: 14125
Quote:
Originally Posted by NVplumber View Post
No, doing nothing was not an option. But an armored assault team, regional response and full heavy tactical equipment seems a bit much. As for not hearing shots, there's a lot of explanations for that. The walls of the house, all the noise on scene, the kid could have used something to muffle the gun like a pillow. That a single suicide shot wasn't heard doesn't surprise me.
Yeah this was too, too much in this specific case. The police went too far. Police I think need to learn that they need to take "crisis calls" differently than they currently do. What I mean by "crisis calls" is the hyperbole of "I'm going to kill ____." Sometimes it is just that but far more often it is that person making you insane with whatever.
 
Old 07-17-2017, 02:19 PM
 
14,984 posts, read 23,754,305 times
Reputation: 26468
Quote:
Originally Posted by NVplumber View Post
As a person with a CCW, I feel more concern over possible interaction with LE than I do a violent criminal. I figure if I am accosted by police for any reason I had better put my hands on my head and loudly announce that I am armed and have a CCW. And freeze like a block of ice. I have never much cared for open carry, but anymore it seems more attractive. That way the fact that I am armed is out in the open so there are no potential surprises. The problem with that is the possibility some ignorant non local will dial 911 and report a person with a gun and blow up someone who is carrying open and legal as an active shooter.
Given the firearms training (or lack of it) that most LEO's receive, I am also nervous about civil employees with guns. They not only carry firearms and lack the training that many CCW holders receive, but also have a legal justification to shoot.
 
Old 07-17-2017, 02:29 PM
 
9,837 posts, read 4,593,477 times
Reputation: 7292
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cape Cod Todd View Post
The Police have no choice but to meet every threat or perceived threat with great force because we have seen where Police have been ambushed and gunned down for no other reason then they wear a badge.

Society is becoming unhinged and the cops are facing ever increasing threats from drug induced crazy people to suicide by cop scenarios to possible terrorism where it has never been seen before so the cops need to go in "heavy".

BS, murder rates and crime rates have dropped steadily across the western world for the last few decades.

Only in Trump's fakenews world is the world dark and scary. HERE in the USA we have enjoyed perhaps the most secure times in generations.

STOP watching hate TV, and start reading actual data. the trend is down down and down and like very trend there will be bumps etc but remember they are trends.
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