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First of all you're wrong about one thing. This was about as effective a way of getting revenge as I can think of. A local kid gets bullied and years later people all across the United States are watching this video. That's effective!
It's at least teachable to the current generation.
Quote:
Originally Posted by phetaroi
What you're talking about is due process. The problem is that this isn't taking place in a courtroom, so there is no due process. One day a couple of us were talking about Kevin Spacey and my friend lamented that he wasn't getting due process. I pointed out that Kevin Spacey could get due process. He could sue his accusers for libel, slander, and defamation of character. But he chooses not to. What does that tell you. This superintendent could sue for libel, slander, and defamation of character. But he won't. What does that tell you?
On this one you're not right. The problem is the famous New York Times v. Sullivan case (link to U.S. Supreme Court decision), which made it virtually impossible for a "public figure" to sue for defamation. And I have little doubt that either Kevin Spacey or the superintendent is a Sullivan-type public figure. In the late 1950's Sullivan, a red-necked Alabama sheriff was unhappy with New York Times coverage of his oppression of black people. The Times was sued for a minor inaccuracy in a civil rights advertisement they published. What was the error? Well, one of the errors was that the ad said the protestors sang "My Country 'Tis of Thee" when in fact they sang the Star Spangled Banner. (Link to news article about case).
An Alabama jury gleefully mulcted the Times with a $500,000 damages award (link to Alabama decision, overturned by Supreme Court). The Supreme Court, in a decision that validates the maxim "hard cases make bad law" held that "public official" (since construed as "public figure") must show "actual malice" to sustain a damages award.
Quote:
Originally Posted by phetaroi
I was bullied by David K of [mod cut] in 7th grade. Everyday he would yank on my ear lobes and threaten me. I know. No big deal. But it ruined seventh grade for me. David, I'd like to chop your ear lobes right off if I could. But I'd also thank you, because when I became a teacher and a principal, I always acted when I saw kids being bullied. In your *******-ness, you made me a better educator.
I would hope that if you ran into David K he would not be the subject of a YouTube video unless he was continuing to act as a malefactor.
Last edited by volosong; 03-25-2018 at 03:27 PM..
Reason: deleted city name/location
Because a lot of the time there is nothing that can be done.
I was bullied in school because of my voice. What was I supposed to do, get a new voice? That wasn't something I could change and stop from happening again and again.
That's what I've been trying to point out. Many times there is nothing the victim can do to change. That is the point I've been trying to drive home with posters on these bully threads, when they keep insisting it's the victim's "fault". I knew a girl in school who was bullied just because she had red hair. She was born with red hair. Some kids are bullied because they come from a poor family. How are they supposed to change this?
Sure, people can get plastic surgery, dye their hair, get speech therapy - but a child needs his parents to help him do that and sometimes they don't or won't. And there really is no valid reason to say a victim should be required to do drastic things to change their appearance just so they won't be bullied.
First of all you're wrong about one thing. This was about as effective a way of getting revenge as I can think of. A local kid gets bullied and years later people all across the United States are watching this video. That's effective!
What you're talking about is due process. The problem is that this isn't taking place in a courtroom, so there is no due process. One day a couple of us were talking about Kevin Spacey and my friend lamented that he wasn't getting due process. I pointed out that Kevin Spacey could get due process. He could sue his accusers for libel, slander, and defamation of character. But he chooses not to. What does that tell you. This superintendent could sue for libel, slander, and defamation of character. But he won't. What does that tell you?
The problem we have right now in this country was bound to reach schools in various ways. As a society, we haven't figured out how to handle claims of harassment. Just the other night I was at a YMCA playing Bunco, and I made a little joke (nothing off color) and the woman sitting next to me started laughing and slapped me in the arm and said, "Oh Vince!" Abruptly she got all serious and began profusely apologizing. I said, "What are you apologizing for?" "I touched you. And nobody should touch another person. It's harassment".
I was bullied by David K of ****** in 7th grade. Everyday he would yank on my ear lobes and threaten me. I know. No big deal. But it ruined seventh grade for me. David, I'd like to chop your ear lobes right off if I could. But I'd also thank you, because when I became a teacher and a principal, I always acted when I saw kids being bullied. In your *******-ness, you made me a better educator.
Kevin Spacey raped minor boys. How can you compare that to what a 13-year old may or may not have done back in the late ‘70s when he was in junior high school? Juvenile records are sealed for a reason.
That's what I've been trying to point out. Many times there is nothing the victim can do to change. That is the point I've been trying to drive home with posters on these bully threads, when they keep insisting it's the victim's "fault". I knew a girl in school who was bullied just because she had red hair. She was born with red hair. Some kids are bullied because they come from a poor family. How are they supposed to change this?
Sure, people can get plastic surgery, dye their hair, get speech therapy - but a child needs his parents to help him do that and sometimes they don't or won't. And there really is no valid reason to say a victim should be required to do drastic things to change their appearance just so they won't be bullied.
For the third time, WHO has said it's the victim's fault? Who, who, who?
It's like ClaraC said. I'll quote a short excerpt: "As a society, we're constantly warning each other how not to be the victim of identity theft, burglary, robbery, scams, etc. Here's how not to be a victim, we say."
NONE of that means that we "blame the victim" when their house gets robbed because they left the door unlocked. The fault is clearly with the robber. Yet virtually every post I see on my neighborhood email/FB page about car/house thefts states the car/house was left unlocked.
That's what I've been trying to point out. Many times there is nothing the victim can do to change. That is the point I've been trying to drive home with posters on these bully threads, when they keep insisting it's the victim's "fault". I knew a girl in school who was bullied just because she had red hair. She was born with red hair. Some kids are bullied because they come from a poor family. How are they supposed to change this?
.
i was bullied in middle school because of my curly red hair and I was new. My dad eventually went to the school and threatened the principal, teachers, etc if something wasn’t done. The bullying stopped. I’d already fought back but when the teachers are complicit, that doesn’t necessarily stop the bullies.
I was never bullied again and my hair eventually became an asset. But you never forget that stuff. Amazing what power it has.
Kevin Spacey raped minor boys. How can you compare that to what a 13-year old may or may not have done back in the late ‘70s when he was in junior high school? Juvenile records are sealed for a reason.
I think you may have missed the point he was trying to make, rulings like that would apply regardless of the action’s severity. That aside, juvenile records may be sealed but nothing prevents victims or witnesses from recounting their stories. As a teacher I would not be allowed to talk about what a student in my classes does to anyone but select individuals, but the other students, and subsequently their parents, can chatter about it all they want. It is not just the offending juvenile’s story, it is also the victim’s story and provided there is not a gag order it is theirs to tell when and where they want.
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NONE of that means that we "blame the victim" when their house gets robbed because they left the door unlocked. The fault is clearly with the robber. Yet virtually every post I see on my neighborhood email/FB page about car/house thefts states the car/house was left unlocked.
Plenty of people lock their homes and even have security alarms and still get their houses broken into. If someone really wants in your home, they can get in. And even if they were negligent in protecting their home, do you think the robber shouldn't be charged with a crime?
But this thread isn't about home robberies anyway. It's about kids bullied in school. What do you think the bullied child is supposed to change to keep himself from being bullied? Order his parents to home school him? Or tell his parents to buy body armor for him to wear to school every day? What exactly is a child supposed to do to prevent himself from being bullied? Kids under 18 don't have the same control over their circumstances that adults do. I'll be waiting to hear your answer.
Last edited by PriscillaVanilla; 03-25-2018 at 10:21 AM..
Kevin Spacey raped minor boys. How can you compare that to what a 13-year old may or may not have done back in the late ‘70s when he was in junior high school? Juvenile records are sealed for a reason.
All of Spacey's accusers were not minor boys. I am talking about various forms of harassment. Bullying is harassment.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PriscillaVanilla
Plenty of people lock their homes and even have security alarms and still get their houses broken into. If someone really wants in your home, they can get in. And even if they were negligent in protecting their home, do you think the robber shouldn't be charged with a crime?
But this thread isn't about home robberies anyway. It's about kids bullied in school. What do you think the bullied child is supposed to change to keep himself from being bullied? Order his parents to home school him? Or tell his parents to buy body armor for him to wear to school every day? What exactly is a child supposed to do to prevent himself from being bullied? Kids under 18 don't have the same control over their circumstances that adults do. I'll be waiting to hear your answer.
There ARE things, Priscilla, children can do to mitigate being bullied, and they're known. I think everyone can recall a child who was handicapped, or scarred, or really ugly, or very fat, or dressed oddly, who weren't the victims of bullies. They were in fact pretty popular. In Judy Blume's "Blubber", she points out that the victim of bullying in that case "was not the fattest girl in the class".
The bully is at fault. But there are some things victims can usually do - and counselors and behavioral therapists KNOW THIS AND CAN HELP - but first we all have to admit that there are things the children can do to be less likely to be singled out for being bullied.
Just as you can refuse to give out your SSN when asked, or you can lock your car and hide your valuables. Things we all know to do. And no one ever is blaming the victims of identity theft or car burglaries.
The same with bullied children. And as a parent, I did see that and taught my kids how to be less likely to attract bullying when the problem came up.
Plenty of people lock their homes and even have security alarms and still get their houses broken into. If someone really wants in your home, they can get in. And even if they were negligent in protecting their home, do you think the robber shouldn't be charged with a crime?
But this thread isn't about home robberies anyway. It's about kids bullied in school. What do you think the bullied child is supposed to change to keep himself from being bullied? Order his parents to home school him? Or tell his parents to buy body armor for him to wear to school every day? What exactly is a child supposed to do to prevent himself from being bullied? Kids under 18 don't have the same control over their circumstances that adults do. I'll be waiting to hear your answer.
Well, here it is! The first question I'm not going to answer because I already did in a previous post. Perhaps you should read it for comprehension instead of according to your biases.
You took a post where volosong said he ended the bullying by throwing the bully down a flight of stairs, which he acknowledged probably wasn't the best idea, but whatever, and went off on your agenda. You have accused others on this forum of "blaming the victim" because of this post; you have accused them (us) of saying things we didn't say, such as "implying that everyone should do what volosong did when he SAID what he did probably wasn't the greatest idea; "implying" actions that are not stated; telling bullied kids constantly (emphasis yours) what they should do/have done differently to avoid it; get plastic surgery, dye their hair, get speech therapy, etc to avoid bullying." No one has said any of that.
The usual response to kids, is to "talk to an adult", as mistyriver did; and the adult, her dad in this case, talked to the school and ended the bullying over her red, curly hair.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ClaraC
There ARE things, Priscilla, children can do to mitigate being bullied, and they're known. I think everyone can recall a child who was handicapped, or scarred, or really ugly, or very fat, or dressed oddly, who weren't the victims of bullies. They were in fact pretty popular. In Judy Blume's "Blubber", she points out that the victim of bullying in that case "was not the fattest girl in the class".
The bully is at fault. But there are some things victims can usually do - and counselors and behavioral therapists KNOW THIS AND CAN HELP - but first we all have to admit that there are things the children can do to be less likely to be singled out for being bullied.
Just as you can refuse to give out your SSN when asked, or you can lock your car and hide your valuables. Things we all know to do. And no one ever is blaming the victims of identity theft or car burglaries.
The same with bullied children. And as a parent, I did see that and taught my kids how to be less likely to attract bullying when the problem came up.
Thank you!
Last edited by Katarina Witt; 03-25-2018 at 12:05 PM..
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