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Old 04-07-2018, 05:27 PM
 
Location: Wartrace,TN
5,273 posts, read 8,219,571 times
Reputation: 10382

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Electrician4you View Post
Good. Now craigslist
They shut down all personals a couple of weeks ago.
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Old 04-07-2018, 05:34 PM
 
Location: Chicago
6,005 posts, read 13,178,004 times
Reputation: 7956
Quote:
Originally Posted by tamajane View Post
Maybe the legal businesses should try to separate themselves from illegal prostitution and sex trafficking. Legit strippers are merely entertainers, not "sex workers". Backpage was a cesspool of hoes and child sex trafficking. Legal businesses can advertise anywhere why they have to use a kiddie pimp site.
Recent leglistation may make even this illegal. I checked in on the pages of people I know in the business (ftr, I’m all for grown consenting adults engaging in sex work and personally know people who have done so. And yes, stripping often fallla under the umbrella of “sex work”, not just “entertainment) and all sorts of legal venues may be targeted. No one is really mourning backpage, but there are other ominous signs that this will branch out beyond simply stopping sex trafficking (IIRC, there was a breakdown explainig that even dating sites like Tindr may come under scrutiny depending on the language used). The venues where these services could be legally advertised are shutting down as well.
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Old 04-07-2018, 05:45 PM
 
Location: Honolulu, HI
4,572 posts, read 1,141,729 times
Reputation: 6538
Quote:
Originally Posted by tamajane View Post
Maybe the legal businesses should try to separate themselves from illegal prostitution and sex trafficking. Legit strippers are merely entertainers, not "sex workers". Backpage was a cesspool of hoes and child sex trafficking. Legal businesses can advertise anywhere why they have to use a kiddie pimp site.
That's like saying google should start censoring their search engines because people can use it for all kinds of illegal activity.

Backpages and Craigslist personals provided legitimate services. If the criminals of society (which was a small percentage of ads) take advantage of services then you might as well ban all guns for the criminals who take advantage of lax gun laws.

In America, you don't punish law abiding citizens because the criminals have taken advantage of such freedoms.
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Old 04-07-2018, 06:07 PM
 
Location: Tennessee
20,958 posts, read 15,275,811 times
Reputation: 23737
Craigslist personals were also shut down. CL personals were mainly a place for discreet gay people to find partners.
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Old 04-07-2018, 06:32 PM
 
20,423 posts, read 26,544,024 times
Reputation: 13119
This isn't about Backstage being some sort of innocent service that was taken advantage of by criminals. It's about Michael Lacey being a willing participant in trafficking.

Last edited by Metlakatla; 04-07-2018 at 06:40 PM..
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Old 04-07-2018, 06:35 PM
 
9,834 posts, read 5,719,196 times
Reputation: 9736
Quote:
Originally Posted by usayit View Post
You are right. Pimping isn't protected by the first amendment. However, ad services aren't actually pimping... no more than a gun dealer is committing a murder.
Unfair comparison. It would be like if the gun dealer had a website where people could place ads to sell illegal guns for nefarious purposes, and if the wording looked too suspicious the owner of the site would edit it to make it appear legit.

BP connected prostitutes and johns, and took money from the prostitute. Sounds pimpin to me.
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Old 04-07-2018, 06:49 PM
 
Location: NNJ
8,471 posts, read 4,655,936 times
Reputation: 9103
Quote:
Originally Posted by tamajane View Post
Unfair comparison. It would be like if the gun dealer had a website where people could place ads to sell illegal guns for nefarious purposes, and if the wording looked too suspicious the owner of the site would edit it to make it appear legit.
Not an unfair comparison.

Adding one level of indirection, a dealer owned website doesn't change anything. If the dealer is indeed doing something illegal (which my original premise assumed he/she was not), then it is his actions regarding the illegal activity that implicates him/her... not the act of posting an ad.

Adding another level of indirection, a dealer posting on a website owned by an ad service still means the ad service shouldn't be responsible for the actions of the dealer nor end user. If the dealer is indeed doing something illegal, then the ad service he used shouldn't be held accountable.

In all these cases, posting an ad isn't illegal nor is providing the space for that ad illegal. It is the final end users actions that impicates them in crimes.

You already ignorant to the fact that obvious illegal activity on CL and BP were flagged by users to be removed.


Quote:
BP connected prostitutes and johns, and took money from the prostitute. Sounds pimpin to me.
Connecting people through ads isn't pimping nor sex trafficking. Do you have any clue how a pimp or sex trafficker operates? There is an element of coercion and force. An ad service itself isn't forcing or using coercion on anyone. The end users who are pimps/traffickers maybe... yes... but they are held accountable already... not the service If a prostitute no longer wants to sell sex, then she simply stops putting up ads.... no one is forcing her... certainly not the ad service. How is an ad on some website forcing or coercing anyone into the sex trade?

Last edited by usayit; 04-07-2018 at 07:14 PM..
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Old 04-07-2018, 07:03 PM
 
Location: NNJ
8,471 posts, read 4,655,936 times
Reputation: 9103
Quote:
Originally Posted by Metlakatla View Post
This isn't about Backstage being some sort of innocent service that was taken advantage of by criminals. It's about Michael Lacey being a willing participant in trafficking.
Then they should prosecute Backpage and Michael specifically without using BP or CL as a showcase to push SESTA and FOSTA through congress.

As it is, FOSTA isn't signed into law yet but they seized BP under other pretenses. If Michael is a willing participant then there should be evidence to his participation above and beyond simply hosting a website for ads.
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Old 04-07-2018, 07:17 PM
 
20,423 posts, read 26,544,024 times
Reputation: 13119
You can read more about it here. It's not just about hosting a website for ads. Sounds like you have issues with potential legislation designed to help protect victims of sex traffickers.

Backpage Website Shut Down, Founder Charged With 93 Counts By FBI In Sealed Indictment
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Old 04-07-2018, 07:37 PM
 
Location: NNJ
8,471 posts, read 4,655,936 times
Reputation: 9103
Quote:
Originally Posted by Metlakatla View Post
You can read more about it here. It's not just about hosting a website for ads. Sounds like you have issues with potential legislation designed to help protect victims of sex traffickers.

Backpage Website Shut Down, Founder Charged With 93 Counts By FBI In Sealed Indictment
No.... I've been involved with working against sex traffickers for a very long time. None of this will help sex trafficking.

* In fact, many believe, including the DOJ, were against FOSTA because it will actually make catching and prosectution of sex traffickers MORE difficult.

https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20...t-anyway.shtml

THe ads themselves are material to the prosecutors case. Now there will be less evidence and their activities will be further pushed underground.

Also, sting operations for child prostitution are conducted very easily and cost effectively with the use of these ad services by police. That too is gone.

* When online ads service were made easily accessible. It reduced street prostitution. I support legalization of INDOOR prostitution but NOT street prostitution. It allowed women to connect with customers and operate indoors. Outside the reaches of pimps and sex traffickers. Most of the troubles people associate with prostitution is specifically with street prostitution. Removing this access will have the opposite effect... women will once again be driven to work the streets or through pimps who have connections to customers. Pimps and traffickers once again will thrive just as they did in past decades.

https://www.nbcnews.com/business/eco...streets-n50761

* I monitor several sex worker related websites (not BP and CL). The community is totally against trafficking and child abuse. These are people too.. many are wives and mothers. These crimes are just as bad for sex workers as it is for the community. As it is, they have a PR problem because the media and government associate the prostitution with trafficking. The best people to report such crimes are the sex workers and customers themselves. They are reported on these websites AND the administrators often notify the police. The police also monitor these sites.... everyone knows they do and thus these websites which are frequented by both sex workers and customers are also a vehicle to report crimes. As of a week or so ago, these sites are offline... so once again.... the incentive to report these crimes is gone.

* The implications are far reaching than simply BP and CL. Any website (even this one) can be used by end users to pass information regarding illegal activity. Any dating website can be used by end users to advertise for sex... including legitimate ones like match.com and POF. Even microsoft is acting and censoring materials on things like outlook in response. None of this is good for anyone.

http://boston.cbslocal.com/2018/03/2...ffice-account/

Next will be twitter, snapchat, and facebook... I've already seen movement to these services as an alternative.

* FOSTA doesn't address other forms of trafficking. Trafficking victims are also forced into nanny services, restaurants, hospitality, agriculture jobs etc... FOSTA doesn't address those issues.

https://www.acf.hhs.gov/sites/defaul...rafficking.pdf

* Core issue here is that they are treating trafficking as a sex issue rather than a labor issue; empowering victims and bringing authorities closer to the problem...working closely with those closest to the problem. Example:

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news...tution-n701471

Decriminalization of child committing prostitution for example removes a pimp's leverage over a child by using fear of prosecution against them. While leaving statutory rape and child sex trafficking as the primary charges against those who commit crimes against children. Allows a child prostitute to seek authorities for help without fear of being prosecuted as a criminal themselves..

Taking BP and CL down will have little impact on sex trafficking... Sex trafficking was a problem well before the internet's existence. THe measure taken will just worsen the situation, walk back progress back to the height of the problem, and trample over people's 1st amendment rights.

Believe me, if Backpage operator indeed was directly involved in pimping and sex trafficking, I want him prosecuted to the fullest extent.. those types are absolute bottom of the barrel scum. However, I don't want to do so while trampling over people's rights and walking back to a time that I know very well...

Last edited by usayit; 04-07-2018 at 07:52 PM..
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