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This whole Musk thing keeps going from bad to worse and I'm just over here like * grabs popcorn *
Money does not a wise man make, it seems.
Anyways, great to see everyone made it out safe and sound. Reminded me a bit of the Beaconsfield miners back in Aus / the Mexican miners a few years back. Glad this story bucked the trend of many this year and had a happy ending.
The vultures are descending and as the kids are released from the hospital in a few days, we'll see more bickering and posturing especially as people try to profit from this before interest fades out.
Retired Perth vet Craig Challen explained how he worked closely with his friend and fellow expert cave diver, Adelaide anaesthetist Dr Richard Harris, to medically assess the boys and their coach and get them ready for the rescue operation, in an exclusive interview with the ABC's Four Corners program.
In his first in-depth interview about the rescue operation, Dr Challen confirmed that the boys were heavily sedated.
ONE of the Aussie divers in the cave rescue has revealed how he thought they were going to die, if it wasn’t for one crucial detail.
Quote:
Speaking on their return to Australia and still in disbelief over the miracle result, Mr Challen said the boys were medicated to the extent “they didn’t know what was going on”.
“We could not have panicking kids in there, they would have killed themselves and possibly killed the rescuer as well.”
An American diver involved in the rescue that the “kids were proper knocked out”.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mic111
Interesting interview with John Volanthen, one of the cave divers who found the boys and then went on to participated in their rescue.
Thanks for posting it. Interesting that he said it wasn't by accident or luck that they found the kids because they surface when they find a clearing to see if they smell or see people. One of the 1s stories I read said it was luck they stopped there because their rope had ended. Had the rope been longer they may have missed them because they did not see the clearing or something to that effect
I see he already has a wiki profile that says he's had some unsuccessful cave rescues.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SherlockCombs
This whole Musk thing keeps going from bad to worse and I'm just over here like * grabs popcorn *
Money does not a wise man make, it seems.
Anyways, great to see everyone made it out safe and sound. Reminded me a bit of the Beaconsfield miners back in Aus / the Mexican miners a few years back. Glad this story bucked the trend of many this year and had a happy ending.
Musk may have called him a pedo but the diver started it then runs to say he's gonna sue. I sure wonder if he did it to get a reaction from Musk because he knew he would so that he could make some quick cash off of it? I didn't see any of the other divers saying anything about Musk. They've been trying to keep it about the cave and kids
NInteresting that he said it wasn't by accident or luck that they found the kids because they surface when they find a clearing to see if they smell or see people. One of the 1s stories I read said it was luck they stopped there because their rope had ended. Had the rope been longer they may have missed them because they did not see the clearing or something to that effect.
I read that same story. But I tend to believe this version. If you're looking for lost people you have to be methodical about it so surfacing for every air pocket makes more sense. Also this is the top cave rescue team in the world. They wouldn't just be willy nilly laying line and not checking the route as they went along.
It may also be true that this was their last surface when laying this line (because it was the end of the line) and someone overheard that and then speculated that was why they had surfaced. A reporter printed the outsiders speculation as fact. Then all the other news organizations repeated it. This is just speculation on my part but I could see it happening that way.
To me it makes more sense that they surface at every air pocket. They have done this before so they know how to find people lost in a cave. Smelling 13 people who have been there for 9 days was probably not hard. No washing up, no bathroom etc. Kudos to the Thai seals who stayed with them. I read there were 2 Thai seal Drs who volunteered to stay with them if the cave flooded and they had to try and wait it out till Jan. That is courage!!!
Really amazing that there were no casualties. Especially after hearing the one diver say the third day was so murky he kept running his head into rocks and they were worried if they ran one of the boys heads into rocks it would dislodge the mask and then they would lose the boy. That is why early on I wondered if they were going to use dive helmets. Much less chance of dislodging the mask. Apparently the smallest boy was at the biggest risk because they weren't sure they could get a good enough fit with the mask. I read they had to custom make a wet suit for him because he was so tiny.
This is also why that mini sub was so important. Let's say they lost 2 out of the first 4 boys due to problems with the mask. Obviously they would have to switch strategies. Having a way to enclose the boy in something would have given them options. They could have gotten more powerful pumps to limit the underwater portion more. I remember that some country had offered up some super powerful pumps but was turned down. Don't know if they weren't able to get them there on time or not. Also, knowing what we know now how the cave flooded so bad when one pump went out and sent all the rescuers running for their lives there may not have been redundant pumps on site. Anyways, in terms of alternative strategies, they could have continued to drill away at the underwater portions that were limiting if the sub couldn't make it.
I don't really understand the criticism of the sub development and delivery. To me it was a very smart option to have available. No one knew how this strategy would work. I believe the divers who say they thought they would lose 5 or 6 boys this way. And one US expert said when asked by a Thai official about chances thought it had a 60-70% chance of success.
When I first heard they were going in I thought 20-30% chance of success. I believe the game changer was drugging the boys and making them into baggage like handling the air tanks going in and out. Thankfully the boys were all healthy enough to make it through this strategy. If any of them had underlying heart conditions, a reaction to the sedative, or a bad case of pneumonia etc it may not have worked for them. Again making the mini-sub a good option.
I still think it was pretty much a miracle that they got all 13 out and only lost one rescuer life.
The 12 boys and their coach who were rescued from a cave complex in Thailand honored the diver who died in the operation to save them. Meanwhile doctors, who are set to release the boys, are warning parents to protect them from the pressures of fame as talk swirls about a Hollywood movie in the works. NBC’s Janis Mackey Frayer reports for TODAY.
As I suspected from the beginning, we'll never quite know what really went on. Even now there is not agreement as to how sedated they were.
But, so what. All the kids are out, and that's what counts!
As to Musk. Well, at least he tried something...actually did something. Why he had to get stupid and make the uncalled for remark about one of the divers...he was a moron for doing that. Sorta reminds me of another figure on the world stage.
But I agree, this was nothing short of a (non-religious) miracle. The chances of success were, in my humble opinion, damn close to zero.
I read that same story. But I tend to believe this version. If you're looking for lost people you have to be methodical about it so surfacing for every air pocket makes more sense. Also this is the top cave rescue team in the world. They wouldn't just be willy nilly laying line and not checking the route as they went along.
It may also be true that this was their last surface when laying this line (because it was the end of the line) and someone overheard that and then speculated that was why they had surfaced. A reporter printed the outsiders speculation as fact. Then all the other news organizations repeated it. This is just speculation on my part but I could see it happening that way.
To me it makes more sense that they surface at every air pocket. They have done this before so they know how to find people lost in a cave. Smelling 13 people who have been there for 9 days was probably not hard. No washing up, no bathroom etc. Kudos to the Thai seals who stayed with them. I read there were 2 Thai seal Drs who volunteered to stay with them if the cave flooded and they had to try and wait it out till Jan. That is courage!!!
Really amazing that there were no casualties. Especially after hearing the one diver say the third day was so murky he kept running his head into rocks and they were worried if they ran one of the boys heads into rocks it would dislodge the mask and then they would lose the boy. That is why early on I wondered if they were going to use dive helmets. Much less chance of dislodging the mask. Apparently the smallest boy was at the biggest risk because they weren't sure they could get a good enough fit with the mask. I read they had to custom make a wet suit for him because he was so tiny.
This is also why that mini sub was so important. Let's say they lost 2 out of the first 4 boys due to problems with the mask. Obviously they would have to switch strategies. Having a way to enclose the boy in something would have given them options. They could have gotten more powerful pumps to limit the underwater portion more. I remember that some country had offered up some super powerful pumps but was turned down. Don't know if they weren't able to get them there on time or not. Also, knowing what we know now how the cave flooded so bad when one pump went out and sent all the rescuers running for their lives there may not have been redundant pumps on site. Anyways, in terms of alternative strategies, they could have continued to drill away at the underwater portions that were limiting if the sub couldn't make it.
I don't really understand the criticism of the sub development and delivery. To me it was a very smart option to have available. No one knew how this strategy would work. I believe the divers who say they thought they would lose 5 or 6 boys this way. And one US expert said when asked by a Thai official about chances thought it had a 60-70% chance of success.
When I first heard they were going in I thought 20-30% chance of success. I believe the game changer was drugging the boys and making them into baggage like handling the air tanks going in and out. Thankfully the boys were all healthy enough to make it through this strategy. If any of them had underlying heart conditions, a reaction to the sedative, or a bad case of pneumonia etc it may not have worked for them. Again making the mini-sub a good option.
I still think it was pretty much a miracle that they got all 13 out and only lost one rescuer life.
I honestly don't know who to believe. I linked to one article where another set of divers said the British guys were ready to leave before they found them. That diver said it was him who said let's just lay the rest of the rope.
Stories are gonna change. We have how many people that were there? It's their version to make their own story better.
Not seeing much for the US team. So far I've found one person that said something.
Quote:
Originally Posted by phetaroi
As I suspected from the beginning, we'll never quite know what really went on. Even now there is not agreement as to how sedated they were.
But, so what. All the kids are out, and that's what counts!
As to Musk. Well, at least he tried something...actually did something. Why he had to get stupid and make the uncalled for remark about one of the divers...he was a moron for doing that. Sorta reminds me of another figure on the world stage.
But I agree, this was nothing short of a (non-religious) miracle. The chances of success were, in my humble opinion, damn close to zero.
I honestly don't know who to believe. I linked to one article where another set of divers said the British guys were ready to leave before they found them. That diver said it was him who said let's just lay the rest of the rope.
Stories are gonna change. We have how many people that were there? It's their version to make their own story better.
Not seeing much for the US team. So far I've found one person that said something.
Trump like for sure!
Ill believe the 2 british divers who found the kids anyday. When you are the best in the world and countries call on you to save people who are trapped in caves, and you work reg jobs, endanger your life by trying to rescue people, others become jealous. Sometimes you cant rescue them alive. Cave diving is a dangerous sport.
The divers: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...=.59d2a04fba35
Yep, this ^ I'll take the word of the experts who were on the scene over the word of a rich, 'Well, actually...' white guy who tries to insert himself into the narrative any day.
And the race is on. The studio currently negotiating with the Thai government and finding actors, Pure Flix, is the same studio that produced the "God is not dead" series of films.
Nothing wrong with that, but I am disheartened to have read that the co-founder of the company is going to base this movie from the viewpoint of the two British divers. Yet again, fears of Hollywood whitewashing of a foreign based story is rapidly coming true.
Look, I totally get it that this was an international affair. Not only were American special ops along with Australian and British cave divers (read: Caucasian) among the very first on the scene, without their help, this would have been even more impossible of a rescue. The dive masks the kids wore were based on a company out of San Marcos, California. The cave mapping was done by a Texas company I believe. And so on and so forth. But the thing is, you give Hollywood any opportunity to relegate non-white characters to the background, you give them that inch, they'll take a foot.
If I were to make this movie, I would give just as much screen time to the Thai coach, their kids, and their families, as to the rescue operation. The first third of the movie would be about these kids, their everyday lives, how much they love soccer, and the fateful day they got trapped in the cave. And THEN the movie can switch to the rescue operations to give those guys (including the Thai SEAL that died) their fair share of screen time.
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