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I can't stand when parents defend knucklehead kids that deserve what they got. I had no problems in H.S. because I was tall muscular and everyone knew I trained in Martial Arts previously because the Dojo was nearby.
I stopped at Red Belt so I would not have legal issues when defending myself.
I know, right? Registering your hands as weapons with the Police is such a hassle.
I'm gonna guess that the cheerleader has brothers at home. She started out with flailing blows, which turned into solid closed fist punches. That's what brothers can teach you.
Hopefully the fat girl learned a lesson.
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While self-defense has it's place, insisting it's always the bullied's responsibility to stand up is simply simplistic.
First, in most cases, the bullied person usually is of lower social standing anyway. That can make a huge difference when standing up to a bully who's usually stronger than the bullied (that's why people bully the weaker, after all).
Second, building on the first case, even if the said bullied did stand up for him or herself physically, odds are they will lose not only the fight but also get further bullied by others for losing the fight. This puts them in a no-win situation. I'll ignore that it's contradictory to insist that assertiveness is admirable if you win, but by implication scoff-worthy if you lose, especially if the bullied is a lower pecking order person.
Third, in other cases, the bullied person already knows that he or she's in a no-win situation if they have both lower social status and lower fighting abilities - which as said above is a further no-win situation. In short, not just the bully, but the prevailing school social climate is stacked against them.
Fourth, if the principle or teachers ignore it and go about their day, that only makes things worse, for the kids are getting the message that it's ok to bully someone who's weak and low on the social ladder.
The only way to truly reduce bullying to a minimum is to have strict detailed rules against bullying, swift and certain enforcement of those rules, and ….most importantly … change the cultural attitudes against bullying. That includes ditching contempt for weakness, and seeing the weak as worthy of scorn simply because they're weak. Without challenging that contempt, we're left with a neverending treadmill of enforcing school rules against something that (in the bully's eyes) is actually OK to do. That means changing adult culture in that regard, too - it's inappropriate to scorn people merely because they are weak. It's the only sustainable way I know of.
That’s the worst thing. Being beat in front of your classmates is bad enough, but to have millions of people viewing and it’s easily searchable means this will follow both of them around for the rest of their lives. I hope one day they remove the video.
Second, building on the first case, even if the said bullied did stand up for him or herself physically, odds are they will lose not only the fight but also get further bullied by others for losing the fight.
I'm gonna disagree with that.
Bullies bully because they can, and because they're fundamentally lazy.. They pick on the smaller and weaker because they know those kids won't stand up to them and they can get away with it. Deep inside - and whether he will ever admit it or not, the bully doesn't really want to fight. That takes effort. Much easier and more enjoyable for him to pick on someone who won't stand up to him.
But maybe somebody does stand up. And maybe they also lose the fight.. Nobody else will bother him then because they now know he will stand up and they'll have to put out effort if they do. They will then find a new weakness in somebody they can exploit, but they'll move on from that prey.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Upstate67
I'm gonna disagree with that.
Bullies bully because they can, and because they're fundamentally lazy.. They pick on the smaller and weaker because they know those kids won't stand up to them and they can get away with it. Deep inside - and whether he will ever admit it or not, the bully doesn't really want to fight. That takes effort. Much easier and more enjoyable for him to pick on someone who won't stand up to him.
But maybe somebody does stand up. And maybe they also lose the fight.. Nobody else will bother him then because they now know he will stand up and they'll have to put out effort if they do. They will then find a new weakness in somebody they can exploit, but they'll move on from that prey.
Interesting, but irrelevant. The context is explaining social factors that encourage bullying.
As I said, the bullied person has (usually) lower social standing anyway. So even if the bullied person fights back and loses, they'll get looked down harshly for losing the fight - regardless of whose behavior is in the right or wrong. That's what happens more often than not. IOW, right or wrong doesn't matter so much as social standing (though maybe not socio-economic status per se).
Greatly reducing bullying requires everyone be on the same page: not just the students and school staff, but the parents of the students and the larger community. The entertainment industry and media also needs to get on board. Stigmatize bullying as much as we stigmatize racism, homophobia, anti-semitism, etc. That includes getting rid of victim-blaming of the bullied. Of course it won't eliminate bullying, but if it reduces it by a small amount, society needs it.
Interesting, but irrelevant. The context is explaining social factors that encourage bullying.
As I said, the bullied person has (usually) lower social standing anyway. So even if the bullied person fights back and loses, they'll get looked down harshly for losing the fight
Bullies bully because they can, and because they're fundamentally lazy.. They pick on the smaller and weaker because they know those kids won't stand up to them and they can get away with it. Deep inside - and whether he will ever admit it or not, the bully doesn't really want to fight. That takes effort. Much easier and more enjoyable for him to pick on someone who won't stand up to him.
But maybe somebody does stand up. And maybe they also lose the fight.. Nobody else will bother him then because they now know he will stand up and they'll have to put out effort if they do. They will then find a new weakness in somebody they can exploit, but they'll move on from that prey.
This!
Growing up, I was always a big kid, BUT...I got in a fight once in school in 1st or 2nd grade....I won, but my step-dad beat the living daylights out of me for it. From that day on I wouldn't fight...we moved often as he was military. I got picked on incessantly because as the new kid ,I was tested. I wouldn't stand up for myself so the other boys found they could pick on me and make themselves look tough by picking on a bigger kid...I wasn't afraid of them, I was afraid of my abusive step-dad.
Even after my mother divorced him. It took a couple years for me to realize that I could stand up for myself.
The year I finally stood up for myself was a tough but liberating year. I was entering 9th grade in a new school (Mom continued the trend of moving constantly.) that was known to be fairly rough for Freshmen.
I was in way too many fights that year...mostly with the Juniors as they were doing most of the hazing. I, surprizingly held my own as a fresheman, but once I actually started beating up the Junior bullies it seemeds to not sit well and every junior wanted to put me down.
I wouldn't say I LOST any fights, but I didn't always WIN either...The one goal I had was that no matter how bad a beating I took, I had to hurt the other kid bad enough that he wouldn't want another peice of me ever again.
That tact seemed to work well for me.
Of course, that was a different era...when the bullies were often secretly patted on the back by authorities...not always, but often.
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