Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
It explained, in one of the linked articles. It's a trail that's unofficial: not created or maintained by the Parks, but one created by visitors taking short-cuts, or walking wherever they want.
Yeah, I was getting that “Dreamer” feeling about the guy as well. That CAN definitely start to get old. Not suicide-motivating old, just ... old. So would living with somebody’s mom. I think I did see that she was from Iowa & if I were her; I’d want to make a clean break from that if I was going back home.
I wonder if she told him she wanted to stop & talk about things & ended up telling him she wanted to continue on her own, without him? Also wondering if her family in Iowa was actually expecting her. Geez, I read every link here plus looked up a few others & Im still confused.
The thing that's frustrating about so many stories like this, that we see on this sub-forum, is that we never get any follow-up news. I'm still wondering what happened in the story of the kid who drowned in Belize, within feet of some of his classmates, calling out to them, and several parent-chaperones on the beach. The mom was going to sue the school and demand an investigation. But we get *crickets* This story needs follow-up with her parents, and some further investigation of the nature of the "rocky" relationship. .
While growing up, my elders always said, "Never go to the grand canyon." I won't go into details, but the canyon has been cursed for millenniums (not centuries...millenniums). The canyon's got a strong association with the dead, so when the living go there without protection, they join the dead. I was born and raised in Arizona, and I've never been to the grand canyon. People look at me with surprise when I say this, but they don't know the history of the canyon. It's best to stay away.
On a related note, my elders also told us kids never to stand on the edge of a cliff. As they explain it, the wind is mischievous and tries to pull you off the edge. Growing up near another national monument featuring a canyon, it was a regular phenomenon to have tourists fall off the canyon ledge and plunge to their deaths. It was such a normal thing that when it happened, people would nonchalantly say, "another one has gone off the edge," or "another one has been blown off."
I think a lot of these accidental falls and deaths caused by getting lost in the wilderness are actually suicides. Lots of people want to die but don't want to be remembered as a suicide, and then there's life insurance policy suicide clauses to avoid. I'd tend to go with that explanation rather than haunted wind to explain why there are so many falls off cliffs, although I'm sure a certain % are true accidents.
Accidents are the 3rd leading cause of death and suicide is the 10th leading cause, which accounts for about 1/4 what accidental deaths account for. If I was to make a wild guess and if there was a way to find out, I'd bet that a good 15%-20% of deaths ruled accidental were actually intentional.
I think a lot of these accidental falls and deaths caused by getting lost in the wilderness are actually suicides. Lots of people want to die but don't want to be remembered as a suicide, and then there's life insurance policy suicide clauses to avoid. I'd tend to go with that explanation rather than haunted wind to explain why there are so many falls off cliffs, although I'm sure a certain % are true accidents.
Accidents are the 3rd leading cause of death and suicide is the 10th leading cause, which accounts for about 1/4 what accidental deaths account for. If I was to make a wild guess and if there was a way to find out, I'd bet that a good 15%-20% of deaths ruled accidental were actually intentional.
I think a lot these days are selfies gone wrong. Thanks, social media! Google the incidence of it.
I read a book recently on deaths that occur at the Grand Canyon. Some fall while taking photos etc. Others aren't prepared with the necessary amount of water and food. Many have died having been injured but no way out and no way to contact anyone.
Others get hopelessly lost and die from dehydration. That length of time from the 9-18 to 10-1 would definitely be enough time to die from dehydration.
Will be interesting to find out the truth...if they are able to...very sad but hopefully it's not foul play.
Incidental to the "story", which is probably some murder-suicide asinine idiocy, ("a shame" and "a tragedy," I guess), I spent a week hiking Grand Canyon in 1988. We were in college, couple groups of us. We planned it well with packs, maps, and routes. I had my own 100K sheets (USGS) and compass. We were geology students and every once of us versed with outdoorsmanship. This was pre-electronics days...barely...so we made good with manual equipment as geologists had for hundreds of years prior.
A geologist who can't navigate, use USGS topo maps, and freaks in the wilderness needs to go ride a desk.
I was tough back then, one of the toughest in the gang, fortunately for us. We had a little trouble, some being soft and some of the water sources, weren't. We found guaranteed sources (springs), though, so I personally had my fill of water since I hiked for it. And went on a canteen run, with another guy, for the group once or twice.
Without planning,food, and shelter, and water, we'd have had problems. No one was injured or died. It was an extreme event, though, and I'd really only wish it on athletes and college students who walk daily. I could not do this now, at 50. That was a once in a lifetime event, probably.
They were clear at the time that the 'Canyon kills tens per season, on-average, those few completely unwary, completely unprepared, who just la-de-dah down into the largest hole on Earth.
Never been to Joshua Tree, that's a retirement thing. Should I want desert extreme-camping,I'll go in with a mule, and/or quad, and/or Adventure bike and beacon in case of medical emergency. Thanks.
While growing up, my elders always said, "Never go to the grand canyon." I won't go into details, but the canyon has been cursed for millenniums (not centuries...millenniums). The canyon's got a strong association with the dead, so when the living go there without protection, they join the dead. I was born and raised in Arizona, and I've never been to the grand canyon. People look at me with surprise when I say this, but they don't know the history of the canyon. It's best to stay away.
On a related note, my elders also told us kids never to stand on the edge of a cliff. As they explain it, the wind is mischievous and tries to pull you off the edge. Growing up near another national monument featuring a canyon, it was a regular phenomenon to have tourists fall off the canyon ledge and plunge to their deaths. It was such a normal thing that when it happened, people would nonchalantly say, "another one has gone off the edge," or "another one has been blown off."
I believe this.
There is a sensation of being pulled towards the edge when on a cliff. It’s sort of hypnotic. I remember learning about the Grand Canyon in elementary school & how it would make me feel uneasy. I’ve never been there but was heading west on I-40 about 20 years ago & felt that same uneasiness whenever I’d look to the north.
For three years I lived behind a small cliff that was fenced off but within city limits. It’s only about 40ft down but high-angle & I could “hear†that cliff constantly. There was a constant ringing hum from it that nobody else ever heard but I could; even with all the windows shut. Every night at sunset a swirling vortex of bats would emerge & after dark the owls would come out to hunt. Love owls. Bats; not so much but the worst thing was that constant hum.
There were many bodies found down by the creek under the cliff for decades & when a shopping center was built just to the south of the cliff, the Costco they built made a “most haunted†list within a few years. It had nothing to do with the Costco, I’m sure. It’s the ground it was built on.
We had a close call like that back in 1987. My brothers and I were driving across the country and stopped at the north rim. We got there about 7 a.m. It was cold (May). There was some snow left at the top. We were driving from Michigan to California and were sightseeing along the way. Grand canyon was an obvious stop, but there was not much to see from the top of the north rim. We had not come all this way to see basically nothing. We considered riding donkeys down but one of my brothers was a bit overweight and exceeded the weight limit, besides it was not clear whether the donkey tours were open this early in the year - there was no one around. So we decided to hike down. The sign said never attempt to hike down and back in one day. That sign was not for us, it was for old people. We were young and healthy (more or less). We did not have a lot of supplies, but we had some granola bars an apple and some other pre-packaged snack food. We also did not have the recommended amount of water, but we figured that was for the summer too and since it was snowy at the top, we would not get as hot and sweaty and probably could get by with less than the recommended amount per person. Besides, the sign was for old people. They need more water.
We hiked down with no problems. A couple of miles from the top, there was a tunnel with a water pipe in it. We filled our canteen and water bottles back up but we had not used much of our water. Everything seemed fine.
We drank quite a bit more water as we went further down. It got pretty warm and we removed our jackets. We beat the estimated time to get down to the floor of the canyon by about an hour. We were doing great. It was much warmer at the bottom, hot even. Hot and sunny and getting hotter. We shed all of our long sleeved clothing.
We had a sort of picnic lunch next to a stream or river at the bottom. We were playing around at the edge of the river and, thinking it was funny, I tossed a big log over my younger brothers head to land in the the water in front of him and surprise him. It worked and he jumped back, startled. I laughed. He screamed.
Younger brother had recently returned from living in Germany as part of a college program. He was the proud owner of a large illegal switchblade which he had in his back pocket. At some time in our hike or paying in the river, the blade had triggered and popped open. The long blade sliced through his back pocket and was sticking out. When he jumped back he sliced his arm across the blade cutting his arm about an inch deep (maybe less but it was the deepest cut I have ever seen. I could see white at the bottom of the cut. I thought it was bone, but it turned out it was just muscle.
There was no way to get help. No cell phones back then (rich people had bag phones - not us). We put a tourniquet on his arm and headed for the trail as quickly as practical.
It had gotten hot. Really really hot (104 f). Older brother was overweight and not in great shape. he was laboring hard and walking slowly up the steep incline. He had to rest frequently. Younger brother was in a bit of a panic to get out and get help, so he said he would forge ahead without us. Because I was in the best physical condition of the three of us, I was carrying the backpack with all of our stuff in it. I gave younger brother half of my water and the remaining granola bars and he went on ahead.
I stayed with older brother as he had turned bright red and was breathing hard. As we climbed, the heat abated a tiny bit, but it was still uber hot. He was embarrassed and very worried about younger brother.
I had to force him to rest from time to time to cool off. After an hour or so, I became worried about younger brother, so I gave my older brother most of my water and ran ahead to catch up to younger bother (I was very athletic and in good shape at the time).
I eventually caught up to younger brother. He was doing fine. His arm had stopped bleeding and he was walking briskly with no trouble. I walked with him for a while and then he gave me back some of my water and I ran back to check on older brother.
Older brother was doing ok but was out of water. I gave most of my water to him and walked with him for a few hours. We stopped to rest frequently. Time passed. I got more and more anxious about younger brother with the massive gash in his arm. Older brother was doing much better as it had gotten a bit cooler as we climbed, maybe only 90 degrees now. Eventually he and I decided I had best go check on younger brother. I ran ahead.
I ran and ran and did not catch up to younger brother. Eventually I slowed to a brisk walk. I drank all my remaining water. I was very very hungry having only had a snack for lunch and it was now evening, but still very hot. As I chugged on trying to run every now and again so I could catch up, I got extremely fatigued. After a while I felt dizzy. I looked around and everything looked sort of purple. I sat down and dug in my backpack. The only thing left in there besides coats and a camera (and younger brothers switchblade) was an apple. I do not like apples. However I needed really food and water. An apple also has liquid inside so I started choking it down as I got up and walked again.
The apple made me feel better almost instantly and the purple went away. After I ate half the apple, I realized older brother was probably starving too and had nothing to eat. I set the remaining half of the apple on the trail and forged upward. It was a sacrifice and I doubted older brother would eat a half eaten apple sitting on the trail, but it might be worthwhile. If I was this bad off, he might be worse.
The half apple really recharged me and I was able to run at times here and there. Eventually I found younger brother sitting in the tunnel where the water was. He was doing fine. he had stopped to be in shade for a while and wait for us. He had some granola left and gave me some. We sat for quite a while waiting for older brother and getting worried. Younger brother said he was fine but his arm was really hurting a lot and he wanted to get out of the canyon and look for help. We decided he would go on and I would bring some water and the remaining a granola bar back down to older brother.
I was only able to run for a few minutes and then I had to walk. I was getting worn out. I found older brother shuffling along not too far down from the water tunnel. He was out of water and was very happy to get the water I had filled up on at the tunnel. He ate the granola bar as well. He said a few hours back, he was starving out of water and thirsty and feeling very weak. He was not sure he had enough energy to keep going when he came across a half eaten apple sitting in the middle of the trail. He said it was a gross thing to do but he sat down and ate the remainder of the apple. It made him feel a lot better and he did not think he would have made it much further without it.
By this time I was barely able to walk up the sloped trail. I struggled to keep up with older brother's shuffling gait. We eventually got to the tunnel and got more water and had a rest. Then we shuffled on. It was getting dark and was much cooler and we made batter time after a short rest in the tunnel.
We got to the top after 9 p.m. It was getting cold again. Younger brother was laying on the hood of my car which was still warm from the sunshine of the day. (I forgot to give him my keys.) He was weak and feeling woozy, but seemed ok. We quickly drove to the ranger station for help. It was closed. I raced at the top speed my crappy sunbird could manage to the little town we had come through on the way in. Pretty much everything was closed. We found a bar or something and asked for help. They said there was no doctor in this town, but there was one in a town about an hour plus away. We got to that town in about 40 minutes. Again the only thing open was a bar. It was about midnight. We asked for help and someone who knew the local doctor went and woke him up.
The doctor was drunk. Really really drunk, but he put an IV in my brother and stitched up his arm and gave him some antibiotics and pain killers. By about 2 a.m. we were on our way to our next stop (Zion canyon or Las Vegas, I do not recall which). Wherever it was we had to stay an extra day because no one could walk the next day.
When I arrived at my apartment for my summer internship in California, my brothers flew home. Younger brother went to the family doctor to get his stitches out. The family doctor ask if he had gone to an upholsterer for the stitches. The drunk doctor used 8 stitches. Family doctor said it should have been 80 and he should have been hospitalized. Younger brother would be very lucky if he did not lose some of the use of his arm. He was very lucky and ended up with nothing but a scar and the lesson in being unwise that we all learned.
I do not know how close were were to dying on that day, but it is probably the closest I have ever come. Death by stupid. I think it used to happen a lot at the Grand Canyon. Lots of young idiots ignored the signs. Now it is more developed and the last time I hiked down, the trail was crowded until about half way down. However that was the south rim which is much more popular. Not sure if the north rim is more developed now. Then, it was just a campground, a ranger station and a place to sign up to ride donkeys.
You should copy and paste it as a comment on google maps. Maybe someone will see it. You guys are lucky to be alive. Going down hill is way easier then up!
Incidental to the "story", which is probably some murder-suicide asinine idiocy, ("a shame" and "a tragedy," I guess), I spent a week hiking Grand Canyon in 1988. We were in college, couple groups of us. We planned it well with packs, maps, and routes. I had my own 100K sheets (USGS) and compass. We were geology students and every once of us versed with outdoorsmanship. This was pre-electronics days...barely...so we made good with manual equipment as geologists had for hundreds of years prior.
A geologist who can't navigate, use USGS topo maps, and freaks in the wilderness needs to go ride a desk.
I was tough back then, one of the toughest in the gang, fortunately for us. We had a little trouble, some being soft and some of the water sources, weren't. We found guaranteed sources (springs), though, so I personally had my fill of water since I hiked for it. And went on a canteen run, with another guy, for the group once or twice.
Without planning,food, and shelter, and water, we'd have had problems. No one was injured or died. It was an extreme event, though, and I'd really only wish it on athletes and college students who walk daily. I could not do this now, at 50. That was a once in a lifetime event, probably.
They were clear at the time that the 'Canyon kills tens per season, on-average, those few completely unwary, completely unprepared, who just la-de-dah down into the largest hole on Earth.
Never been to Joshua Tree, that's a retirement thing. Should I want desert extreme-camping,I'll go in with a mule, and/or quad, and/or Adventure bike and beacon in case of medical emergency. Thanks.
The original extreme hikers.
If you are still fit, Zion canyon has some of the best extreme hiking locations that you can find anywhere. One "trail," we had to hike, climb swim, spelunk, rappel, pretty much everything. All of the challenge parts were short though so it was manageable by non-super-athletes. the things you see are spectacular and only a tiny (very tiny) segment of the human population will ever see them (other than in pictures). You do need to be very fit and have some experience. It is a true Indiana Jones type adventure (without the archaeology).
I suggest a completely water tight pack that you can use as a float for swimming. Also bring a sat phone and some friends though. It would be easy to break a leg and be stuck. It is really fun, but equally challenging.
J.T. is cool too, but less varied and the challenges are more heat and sun (some climbing, no water). there are some really nice short day hikes I did with my kids when they were very young. There are also many mildly challenging rock formations that are create for introducing inexperience people to basic climbing/extreme hiking. We have a lot of great memories from there when my kids were younger.
I guess they call it Canyoneering now, or maybe they always did and other people just called it extreme hiking.
Here are some examples, highly recommend the subway, but there is a better place, I just do not remember what it is called.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
