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Old 11-10-2018, 05:13 PM
 
Location: state of transition
116 posts, read 47,089 times
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What a horrible, tragic story. They look like such a nice couple. I wonder what happened? Foul play? Http://www.nydailynews.com/news/nati...023-story.html
And
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...nd-Canyon.html
And an interview with his mother
Https://www.azfamily.com/news/mother...9b4b5c5e1.html
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Old 11-10-2018, 06:07 PM
 
10,169 posts, read 4,062,362 times
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Here's a very long and detailed article. The relationship had become "rocky", and they left on Sept. 17 with no apparent plans at all, and no prospects. I don't know why the mom in the other stories said they were "moving out of state". It appears, rather, they left without any plans whatsoever.

This story sounds VERY much like the couple found dead in Joshua Tree last year. I believe in that case, as in possibly this case, the man took the woman out in the wilderness to kill her. There was no evidence of a backpack or any hiking supplies found on this couple, they were going who knows where, and their relationship was "rocky".

Very sad, either way.

https://www.outsideonline.com/235902...n-grand-canyon
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Old 11-10-2018, 06:18 PM
 
Location: Nantahala National Forest, NC
27,093 posts, read 5,907,337 times
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I read a book recently on deaths that occur at the Grand Canyon. Some fall while taking photos etc. Others aren't prepared with the necessary amount of water and food. Many have died having been injured but no way out and no way to contact anyone.

Others get hopelessly lost and die from dehydration. That length of time from the 9-18 to 10-1 would definitely be enough time to die from dehydration.

Will be interesting to find out the truth...if they are able to...very sad but hopefully it's not foul play.
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Old 11-10-2018, 06:20 PM
 
Location: State of Transition
78,711 posts, read 70,579,935 times
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It seems odd that authorities couldn't tell if they'd fallen from the rim, or had died on a lower trail some other way.
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Old 11-10-2018, 06:22 PM
 
10,169 posts, read 4,062,362 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by greatblueheron View Post
I read a book recently on deaths that occur at the Grand Canyon. Some fall while taking photos etc. Others aren't prepared with the necessary amount of water and food. Many have died having been injured but no way out and no way to contact anyone.

Others get hopelessly lost and die from dehydration. That length of time from the 9-18 to 10-1 would definitely be enough time to die from dehydration.

Will be interesting to find out the truth...if they are able to...very sad but hopefully it's not foul play.
It doesn't seem likely they'll ever know the truth.

It's none of my business, but I think investigators should focus on what "rocky" meant in their relationship, if anyone was told where they intended to go, if they did indeed have any hiking stuff with them and were they (in particular, she) dressed as if they expected to go hiking.

Very sad.
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Old 11-10-2018, 06:56 PM
 
25,986 posts, read 33,003,034 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruth4Truth View Post
It seems odd that authorities couldn't tell if they'd fallen from the rim, or had died on a lower trail some other way.
This article indicates that they DID fall off. How or why, remains a mystery.

https://www.ajc.com/news/national/in...XIH4JTcJlLk4I/
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Old 11-11-2018, 09:47 AM
 
Location: BFE
1,297 posts, read 429,351 times
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The Desert, The Sea and The Sky do not suffer fools.
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Old 11-13-2018, 07:56 AM
 
Location: Grosse Ile Michigan
26,524 posts, read 62,973,050 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by greatblueheron View Post
I read a book recently on deaths that occur at the Grand Canyon. Some fall while taking photos etc. Others aren't prepared with the necessary amount of water and food. Many have died having been injured but no way out and no way to contact anyone.

Others get hopelessly lost and die from dehydration. That length of time from the 9-18 to 10-1 would definitely be enough time to die from dehydration.

Will be interesting to find out the truth...if they are able to...very sad but hopefully it's not foul play.
We had a close call like that back in 1987. My brothers and I were driving across the country and stopped at the north rim. We got there about 7 a.m. It was cold (May). There was some snow left at the top. We were driving from Michigan to California and were sightseeing along the way. Grand canyon was an obvious stop, but there was not much to see from the top of the north rim. We had not come all this way to see basically nothing. We considered riding donkeys down but one of my brothers was a bit overweight and exceeded the weight limit, besides it was not clear whether the donkey tours were open this early in the year - there was no one around. So we decided to hike down. The sign said never attempt to hike down and back in one day. That sign was not for us, it was for old people. We were young and healthy (more or less). We did not have a lot of supplies, but we had some granola bars an apple and some other pre-packaged snack food. We also did not have the recommended amount of water, but we figured that was for the summer too and since it was snowy at the top, we would not get as hot and sweaty and probably could get by with less than the recommended amount per person. Besides, the sign was for old people. They need more water.

We hiked down with no problems. A couple of miles from the top, there was a tunnel with a water pipe in it. We filled our canteen and water bottles back up but we had not used much of our water. Everything seemed fine.

We drank quite a bit more water as we went further down. It got pretty warm and we removed our jackets. We beat the estimated time to get down to the floor of the canyon by about an hour. We were doing great. It was much warmer at the bottom, hot even. Hot and sunny and getting hotter. We shed all of our long sleeved clothing.

We had a sort of picnic lunch next to a stream or river at the bottom. We were playing around at the edge of the river and, thinking it was funny, I tossed a big log over my younger brothers head to land in the the water in front of him and surprise him. It worked and he jumped back, startled. I laughed. He screamed.

Younger brother had recently returned from living in Germany as part of a college program. He was the proud owner of a large illegal switchblade which he had in his back pocket. At some time in our hike or paying in the river, the blade had triggered and popped open. The long blade sliced through his back pocket and was sticking out. When he jumped back he sliced his arm across the blade cutting his arm about an inch deep (maybe less but it was the deepest cut I have ever seen. I could see white at the bottom of the cut. I thought it was bone, but it turned out it was just muscle.

There was no way to get help. No cell phones back then (rich people had bag phones - not us). We put a tourniquet on his arm and headed for the trail as quickly as practical.

It had gotten hot. Really really hot (104 f). Older brother was overweight and not in great shape. he was laboring hard and walking slowly up the steep incline. He had to rest frequently. Younger brother was in a bit of a panic to get out and get help, so he said he would forge ahead without us. Because I was in the best physical condition of the three of us, I was carrying the backpack with all of our stuff in it. I gave younger brother half of my water and the remaining granola bars and he went on ahead.

I stayed with older brother as he had turned bright red and was breathing hard. As we climbed, the heat abated a tiny bit, but it was still uber hot. He was embarrassed and very worried about younger brother.
I had to force him to rest from time to time to cool off. After an hour or so, I became worried about younger brother, so I gave my older brother most of my water and ran ahead to catch up to younger bother (I was very athletic and in good shape at the time).

I eventually caught up to younger brother. He was doing fine. His arm had stopped bleeding and he was walking briskly with no trouble. I walked with him for a while and then he gave me back some of my water and I ran back to check on older brother.

Older brother was doing ok but was out of water. I gave most of my water to him and walked with him for a few hours. We stopped to rest frequently. Time passed. I got more and more anxious about younger brother with the massive gash in his arm. Older brother was doing much better as it had gotten a bit cooler as we climbed, maybe only 90 degrees now. Eventually he and I decided I had best go check on younger brother. I ran ahead.

I ran and ran and did not catch up to younger brother. Eventually I slowed to a brisk walk. I drank all my remaining water. I was very very hungry having only had a snack for lunch and it was now evening, but still very hot. As I chugged on trying to run every now and again so I could catch up, I got extremely fatigued. After a while I felt dizzy. I looked around and everything looked sort of purple. I sat down and dug in my backpack. The only thing left in there besides coats and a camera (and younger brothers switchblade) was an apple. I do not like apples. However I needed really food and water. An apple also has liquid inside so I started choking it down as I got up and walked again.

The apple made me feel better almost instantly and the purple went away. After I ate half the apple, I realized older brother was probably starving too and had nothing to eat. I set the remaining half of the apple on the trail and forged upward. It was a sacrifice and I doubted older brother would eat a half eaten apple sitting on the trail, but it might be worthwhile. If I was this bad off, he might be worse.

The half apple really recharged me and I was able to run at times here and there. Eventually I found younger brother sitting in the tunnel where the water was. He was doing fine. he had stopped to be in shade for a while and wait for us. He had some granola left and gave me some. We sat for quite a while waiting for older brother and getting worried. Younger brother said he was fine but his arm was really hurting a lot and he wanted to get out of the canyon and look for help. We decided he would go on and I would bring some water and the remaining a granola bar back down to older brother.

I was only able to run for a few minutes and then I had to walk. I was getting worn out. I found older brother shuffling along not too far down from the water tunnel. He was out of water and was very happy to get the water I had filled up on at the tunnel. He ate the granola bar as well. He said a few hours back, he was starving out of water and thirsty and feeling very weak. He was not sure he had enough energy to keep going when he came across a half eaten apple sitting in the middle of the trail. He said it was a gross thing to do but he sat down and ate the remainder of the apple. It made him feel a lot better and he did not think he would have made it much further without it.

By this time I was barely able to walk up the sloped trail. I struggled to keep up with older brother's shuffling gait. We eventually got to the tunnel and got more water and had a rest. Then we shuffled on. It was getting dark and was much cooler and we made batter time after a short rest in the tunnel.

We got to the top after 9 p.m. It was getting cold again. Younger brother was laying on the hood of my car which was still warm from the sunshine of the day. (I forgot to give him my keys.) He was weak and feeling woozy, but seemed ok. We quickly drove to the ranger station for help. It was closed. I raced at the top speed my crappy sunbird could manage to the little town we had come through on the way in. Pretty much everything was closed. We found a bar or something and asked for help. They said there was no doctor in this town, but there was one in a town about an hour plus away. We got to that town in about 40 minutes. Again the only thing open was a bar. It was about midnight. We asked for help and someone who knew the local doctor went and woke him up.

The doctor was drunk. Really really drunk, but he put an IV in my brother and stitched up his arm and gave him some antibiotics and pain killers. By about 2 a.m. we were on our way to our next stop (Zion canyon or Las Vegas, I do not recall which). Wherever it was we had to stay an extra day because no one could walk the next day.

When I arrived at my apartment for my summer internship in California, my brothers flew home. Younger brother went to the family doctor to get his stitches out. The family doctor ask if he had gone to an upholsterer for the stitches. The drunk doctor used 8 stitches. Family doctor said it should have been 80 and he should have been hospitalized. Younger brother would be very lucky if he did not lose some of the use of his arm. He was very lucky and ended up with nothing but a scar and the lesson in being unwise that we all learned.


I do not know how close were were to dying on that day, but it is probably the closest I have ever come. Death by stupid. I think it used to happen a lot at the Grand Canyon. Lots of young idiots ignored the signs. Now it is more developed and the last time I hiked down, the trail was crowded until about half way down. However that was the south rim which is much more popular. Not sure if the north rim is more developed now. Then, it was just a campground, a ranger station and a place to sign up to ride donkeys.

Last edited by Coldjensens; 11-13-2018 at 08:11 AM..
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Old 11-13-2018, 08:27 AM
 
Location: Nantahala National Forest, NC
27,093 posts, read 5,907,337 times
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OMG...what a survival story.

Thanks for telling it....hope many read it and see how dangerous the Grand Canyon and others can be if not prepared. Should you all have been better outfitted the only main issue would have been the wound and the hard walk back up.

So glad all turned out ok...IMO, you likely dodged a big bullet. Death by dehydration averted!
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Old 11-13-2018, 09:05 AM
 
Location: Grosse Ile Michigan
26,524 posts, read 62,973,050 times
Reputation: 30564
Went to look on google. There is a lodge there with a gift shop and 90 plus cabins. It has been there since the 1920s, so it was there, but I do not recall seeing it. I do not think it was open when we were there. Definitely not open when we got back up, but I am pretty sure no one was around when we left the top for our hike. There was one tent in the campground. It was probably mid-may.
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