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Old Yesterday, 12:34 PM
 
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Honestly, of the homeless population that I saw in the 70s -90s (before I moved to the upper middle class suburb where we mostly don't see the homeless), virtually all of them were I assume US born - African American and White. I don't recall seeing anyone muttering to themselves in a foreign language.

The homeless street people are largely the mentally ill who would have been in State mental hospitals until the 70's and 80's movement to close those mental hospitals, and those addicted to drugs and alcohol. Homeless families are usually able to get into some kind of shelter situation. Not great, but at least not on the street.
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Old Yesterday, 12:41 PM
 
Location: Brooklyn,NY
10,444 posts, read 12,678,319 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boxus View Post
Miami ranks number one, or was at least, for people spending the highest percent of their income on housing.

Rent is getting crazy, I own now thankfully.
Being in NYC, this is shocking news. People rent out couches, a room rental can even be unaffordable here. Miami and surrounding areas have many NY transplants too. Perhaps this is a prime reason.
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Old Yesterday, 12:44 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fisheye View Post

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XShc_KPeanc

LA is right up there with the number of homeless. You can chose between many YouTube videos of all the encampments.

My feeling is that these cities should look at pod housing like in Japan and supply common restrooms. Sewage is a big problem both for the homeless and the residents that have to live and work in that area. Of course there are many homeless that have mental problems and that is harder to address. I would think that there should be some way to put this potential workforce to work cleaning up their area instead of creating squalor? Maybe the cities could have requirements for homeless that wanted a pod to sleep?
They don't want to work, and often they just cannot bear to be around other people because of their severe mental illnesses. They do want to be in cities, where there are restaurants, convenience stores, a high concentration of people, easy access to drugs and alcohol. Can you imagine being a homeless person in a suburb or exurb? Who you gonna beg from? How you gonna get to the liquor store, or your dealer? In the cities, they can beg, sleep in alleys, doorways, on warm grates, can get food out of dumpsters. The problem with maintaining public bathrooms is that you have to have someone to throw the homeless OUT of them. The public bathroom stalls in Penn Station and Grand Central in NYC in the 1970s and 1980s were unusable - there was a homeless person living in each and every one of them.

No, the solution to the homeless situation is re-opening large public mental health hospitals for the mentally ill and making it easier to commit them, strict law enforcement against criminal activity in and around public housing so that people can live there safely (and the criminals are in prison, instead of menacing the law-abiding poor in public housing), and liberalization of zoning regulations to encourage over-building of dense high rise apartment blocks, so that the supply outstrips the demand for housing. That way, poor could reside safely in public housing, mentally ill would be housed and treated, and the overall cost of housing for working people would come down, with oversupply of housing.
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Old Yesterday, 12:47 PM
 
Location: la la land
28,573 posts, read 12,095,917 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by parentologist View Post
They don't want to work, and often they just cannot bear to be around other people because of their severe mental illnesses. They do want to be in cities, where there are restaurants, convenience stores, a high concentration of people, easy access to drugs and alcohol. Can you imagine being a homeless person in a suburb or exurb? Who you gonna beg from? How you gonna get to the liquor store, or your dealer? In the cities, they can beg, sleep in alleys, doorways, on warm grates, can get food out of dumpsters. The problem with maintaining public bathrooms is that you have to have someone to throw the homeless OUT of them. The public bathroom stalls in Penn Station and Grand Central in NYC in the 1970s and 1980s were unusable - there was a homeless person living in each and every one of them.

No, the solution to the homeless situation is re-opening large public mental health hospitals for the mentally ill and making it easier to commit them, strict law enforcement against criminal activity in and around public housing so that people can live there safely (and the criminals are in prison, instead of menacing the law-abiding poor in public housing), and liberalization of zoning regulations to encourage over-building of dense high rise apartment blocks, so that the supply outstrips the demand for housing. That way, poor could reside safely in public housing, mentally ill would be housed and treated, and the overall cost of housing for working people would come down, with oversupply of housing.
No, we are not going back to the 1940's where people were confined to mental hospitals, received not treatment but were kept there by the courts for decades. It might be nice for you because you wouldn't have to smell them when you walk down the street but it is definitely unconstitutional to forcibly detain someone except under very specific circumstances.
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Old Yesterday, 01:45 PM
 
Location: Swiftwater, PA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2sleepy View Post
No, we are not going back to the 1940's where people were confined to mental hospitals, received not treatment but were kept there by the courts for decades. It might be nice for you because you wouldn't have to smell them when you walk down the street but it is definitely unconstitutional to forcibly detain someone except under very specific circumstances.
That is the problem; it is hard to regress to a point where we could keep the homeless problem to a minimum. I do not see the large state run mental health hospitals opening again. While many of us know that we need them; it will not happen. Any mental hospital would not be just a mental hospital; it would have to render other medical treatments and it would also have to supply interpreters. Then we would have the problem where the working poor are supporting all those that never supported themselves. You also have the legal problems, like you point out, and more government.

Homelessness is a growing problem and we will have to do something. I just hope that there is a solution, where the ones that would receive any benefits, also have to contribute.
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Old Yesterday, 01:47 PM
 
7,605 posts, read 1,894,206 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2sleepy View Post
No, we are not going back to the 1940's where people were confined to mental hospitals, received not treatment but were kept there by the courts for decades. It might be nice for you because you wouldn't have to smell them when you walk down the street but it is definitely unconstitutional to forcibly detain someone except under very specific circumstances.
It may be unconstitutional to detain someone for simply being homeless...but the thing is, they arent doing THAT, they are finding 'other' reasons to detain or arrest them, that accomplish the same thing.


Saw evidence of this in a popular homeless spot in downtown Cincinnati, the city was getting complaints, so they removed benches and enacted laws about being in particular areas after hours, or overnight, so NOW, they can go in and arrest or detain.


Its the same tactic that the first drug laws were used for, it was something they could USE, in order to control certain minorities, and prevent them from being in certain parts of town, they knew they couldnt just order them to leave, or anything else that may be unconstitutional, so they devised something that would achieve the same goal.


Ultimately if police want to arrest you, they WILL find some reason to do it.
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Old Yesterday, 02:05 PM
 
Location: NYC
2,760 posts, read 2,928,095 times
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Society has become more competitive. If you are intellectually below average, you will be increasingly screwed. I don't see any end in sight unless the have nots reach critical mass and overthrows the entire system.
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Old Yesterday, 02:12 PM
 
Location: Upstate NY
32,276 posts, read 9,553,908 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by turkeydance View Post
since they are homeless, that is sad.
we try to help where we can. one example:
once a month, we pay for and prepare meals
for our local homeless shelter (for men only).

which brings up my enduring question:
why, exactly, are these men (mostly) homeless?
taking their word for it: drugs, drinking, etc.
mental illness is not even in the top five.
if these are actual facts, then i see the
homeless population DEcreasing due to
the high-powered drugs available and
the inevitable overdoses.

You touch on the fact that homelessness is attributable to more than rent increases rendering apartments unaffordable.

Drugs, mental illness, isolation and, yes poverty. Even a divorce can pauperize someone. It's very sad.

And I found this picture in the article, of a homeless man juxtaposed with clueless girls, to be heartbreaking:

News, Research details the 'rapid increase in homelessness' in certain U.S. cities-059e5ca1acb28b02ca44e75f6463b591.jpg
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Old Yesterday, 02:16 PM
 
Location: Aurora Denveralis
4,631 posts, read 1,537,846 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Curly Q. Bobalink View Post
And so it becomes apparent what affect robotics/automation, offshoring, acceptance of the drug culture, and allowing forty million undocumented aliens into the U.S over the past fifty years has had.
Most of those are eddies in the economic tide. Offshoring especially. Short-term changes in industries that would have otherwise shrunk or disappeared due to cost and production changes.

But you're welcome to explain how "acceptance of the drug culture" results in no adequate jobs. (Here in Colorado, it's created tens of thousands of jobs - nearly 200,000 nationwide, by some counts.)

And how aliens, documented, illegal or otherwise have changed the job picture since the vast majority do jobs no one else wants and have been since the bracero days. Farmers cannot hire enough "legal" or "native" people to do picking, sorting etc. - and they try, from sheer racism or 'Murrica-Firsting or whatever.

Now, automation... you're getting it. And we're on the thin end of the wedge, there. And there's no reversing course.
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Old Yesterday, 02:34 PM
 
Location: Swiftwater, PA
13,741 posts, read 10,967,955 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quietude View Post
Most of those are eddies in the economic tide. Offshoring especially. Short-term changes in industries that would have otherwise shrunk or disappeared due to cost and production changes.

But you're welcome to explain how "acceptance of the drug culture" results in no adequate jobs. (Here in Colorado, it's created tens of thousands of jobs - nearly 200,000 nationwide, by some counts.)

And how aliens, documented, illegal or otherwise have changed the job picture since the vast majority do jobs no one else wants and have been since the bracero days. Farmers cannot hire enough "legal" or "native" people to do picking, sorting etc. - and they try, from sheer racism or 'Murrica-Firsting or whatever.

Now, automation... you're getting it. And we're on the thin end of the wedge, there. And there's no reversing course.
The more employees that our employers have to choose from; the less they have to pay. Supply and demand. So, if I wanted to hire cheap labor, there would never be too many workers. It isn't only the pay that suffers; it is also 'respect'. Once you turn into just a number or body filling a position; you, as a person, lost your identity. You are simply a cog in the system with no real worth. You are replaceable.

Americans will do jobs if we are paid. I have done jobs that many illegal aliens would not do. I just want a fair day's dollar for a fair day's labor.
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