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Old Today, 12:50 PM
 
Location: Aurora Denveralis
4,653 posts, read 1,537,846 times
Reputation: 6730

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Quote:
Originally Posted by steveklein View Post
First of all, this isn't true. You can make minimum wage and afford a studio where I live.
The times this claim has been run down, it's in areas of the country no one much wants to live in, and there's no surplus of jobs there anyway.

Even by the broadest stretch of the terms, there are not many places that are desirable to live in, have life-supporting jobs available and have a COL where minimum-ish wage is life-supporting.
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Old Today, 01:11 PM
 
2,512 posts, read 2,203,400 times
Reputation: 2805
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quietude View Post
The times this claim has been run down, it's in areas of the country no one much wants to live in, and there's no surplus of jobs there anyway.

Even by the broadest stretch of the terms, there are not many places that are desirable to live in, have life-supporting jobs available and have a COL where minimum-ish wage is life-supporting.
Oh, so the super talented employees that provide skills that are worth minimum wage pay also need to be in "desirable" areas.

Again... why do people seem to think that a minimum wage position should be able to afford a middle class (or even close to middle class) life? If you are working a minimum wage job, you might not be able to live in an area with sunshine 350 days a year near, or near a body of water. The public school district probably won't be very good, and crime will likely be higher than the national average. Or you can take on roommates. etc.

Bottom line: If you make minimum wage, expect to make some serious concessions when it comes to lifestyle. Not only is this not unfair, it is completely expected (except to liberal city-data posters evidently).
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Old Today, 01:18 PM
 
2,512 posts, read 2,203,400 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arcenal352 View Post
You shouldn't need to earn over $4,500/month to live in a standard apartment. Someone making $1,000 less than that should be able to afford a $1,500 apartment fairly comfortably. That's an extra $2,000 for car, insurance, food, etc. That's a lot.
Tell that to the landlords and mortgage underwriters that have been burned by renting/loaning to people in the "marginal" realm.

If you think it is unfair to have these requirements, then why don't you go ahead and start a realty company and rent to people who make less money. After all, there must be a huge market of people who can afford these apartments yet who aren't able to qualify for them.

But when you have a 15% tenant no-pay rate instead of under 5%, don't post a pity party thread about how you can't evict terrible tenants who aren't paying rent because of actually absurd tenant/landlord laws.

Quote:
The funny thing is, the way housing is set up in this country, if someone is making over a certain amount (I think it's around $32,000) they can't live in certain income-restricted complexes where rent is anywhere from $700-$1,200. But then if they make under $4,500, they can't live in a standard complex either. So people earning low wages can live comfortably in decent complexes. People making over $4,500/month can also. But the people in between? That's the crowd earning $15-$22/hr. Where do they go? They have to live with roommates?
Yeah, government subsidized housing drives housing costs up for those wage earners. Most unfortunate indeed.

But this thread started as a homelessness post... so while I wouldn't much care if subsidized housing went away, I don't think it would immediately impact homelessness in a positive manner.
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Old Today, 01:29 PM
 
Location: Aurora Denveralis
4,653 posts, read 1,537,846 times
Reputation: 6730
Quote:
Originally Posted by steveklein View Post
Oh, so the super talented employees that provide skills that are worth minimum wage pay also need to be in "desirable" areas.
As in "not a craphole corner of the country the natives have been fleeing for decades."

Quote:
Again... why do people seem to think that a minimum wage position should be able to afford a middle class (or even close to middle class) life? If you are working a minimum wage job, you might not be able to live in an area with sunshine 350 days a year near, or near a body of water. The public school district probably won't be very good, and crime will likely be higher than the national average. Or you can take on roommates. etc.

Bottom line: If you make minimum wage, expect to make some serious concessions when it comes to lifestyle. Not only is this not unfair, it is completely expected (except to liberal city-data posters evidently).
Well, rant rant froth froth gibber gibber and all, I never said anything of the kind. If you're going to stand on the "only stupid unworthy people can't support themselves and are thus no one's concern" and "g'damn librals want to give everyone a suburban 3/2 and a Chebby for free" sorts of opinion, there's not much to say that will made a dent in your smug idiocy.

But when you care to address how it's okay for hard-working, native citizen folks with a work ethic as strong as your shiny, impressive one to be unable to find enough employment to support themselves in a fairly minimal fashion - and why this tide of underemployed keeps rising - and how being smug 'cuz it don't affect you accomplishes much of anything... well, we'll all be right here.
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Old Today, 01:39 PM
 
18,310 posts, read 15,395,236 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by silibran View Post
How does a homeless person find the resources, or the knowledge, to leave? Many do not have vehicles, and those that do probably own less than reliable ones. Someone who has concerned family might be able to do this with their help.

One of our local TV stations took on the homeless problem here in Portland. One of the things I learned from it was that many, if not most, of the Portland homeless were displaced natives. That says a lot about the high rents in this area.
This is the sad price to be paid when a city is regentrified and becomes very attractive to higher wage workers. Even the areas that were affordable skyrocket in value and rents become unaffordable for the masses, many of whom lost the apartments they’ve rented for years because the owner now wants to sell or double the rent. Many work in the area, and it becomes impossible to find anything decent anywhere near it. This happened with Brooklyn and is happening in Houston and many other cities. I don’t blame property owners for this but I do think cities need more affordable housing.
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Old Today, 02:11 PM
 
Location: la la land
28,589 posts, read 12,095,917 times
Reputation: 20201
Quote:
Originally Posted by steveklein View Post
So a landlord who wants to make sure their tenant can afford to pay the rent is an "insane" requirement? Yeah, okay. If it was such an insane requirement, then tenants wouldn't be able to meet that requirement and landlords would be sitting on empty properties. After a while, rent prices would drop.

And if you are doing oddjobs and babysitting, it will absolutely count when you try to qualify for an apartment. Unless of course you are cheating on your taxes.
Ok great, then don't complain the next time you are offended by seeing a family living in a RV or a person sleeping in a tent on the sidewalk because that is the consequence of unaffordable rents and wage stagnation.
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Old Today, 02:14 PM
 
2,512 posts, read 2,203,400 times
Reputation: 2805
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quietude View Post
As in "not a craphole corner of the country the natives have been fleeing for decades."
I bet I can find an apartment for rent that someone could afford working minimum wage in just about every state... if not every state. And again, you seem to think that someone who has no real job skills deserves something more than an absolute bare bones existence. They already get subsidized schools, roads, healthcare... and yes... take home pay.

Yet you think those who aren't producing should be subsidized even more. When you subsidize a behavior, you get more of that behavior. When you tax it, you get less. Think about that before you want to take from the successful and give to those who aren't producing (with a big bureaucratic tax to boot).




Quote:
Well, rant rant froth froth gibber gibber and all, I never said anything of the kind. If you're going to stand on the "only stupid unworthy people can't support themselves and are thus no one's concern" and "g'damn librals want to give everyone a suburban 3/2 and a Chebby for free" sorts of opinion, there's not much to say that will made a dent in your smug idiocy.
I'll let you connect the ironic dots.


Quote:
But when you care to address how it's okay for hard-working, native citizen folks with a work ethic as strong as your shiny, impressive one to be unable to find enough employment to support themselves in a fairly minimal fashion - and why this tide of underemployed keeps rising - and how being smug 'cuz it don't affect you accomplishes much of anything... well, we'll all be right here.
People who have my work ethic wouldn't stay at a minimum wage job for long. If they had my work ethic from elementary school age, they would certainly not be working a minimum wage job. Guess what? Working hard from age 8 to 25 matters. I don't feel bad for people who didn't discover their work ethic until adulthood.

But this idea that it is impossible to live on minimum wage is a joke. It can be done. You just have to make concessions.

I also noticed you specifically said native citizen folks. Do you recognize that millions upon millions of illegal immigrants who come here without job skills are watering down the wages for citizens and legal immigrants who also have little to no job skills? Because I'm with you there. Life in the bottom quartile is definitely tougher because of the influx of superfluous labor.
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Old Today, 02:18 PM
 
2,512 posts, read 2,203,400 times
Reputation: 2805
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2sleepy View Post
Ok great, then don't complain the next time you are offended by seeing a family living in a RV or a person sleeping in a tent on the sidewalk because that is the consequence of unaffordable rents and wage stagnation.
Done.

And maybe if the government didn't subsdize housing and force developers to provide housing for low-income people instead of letting the market run its course, rents wouldn't be so high.

And maybe if the government would take more steps to reduce the glut of unskilled labor we have through both education and border security, wages wouldn't be so stagnant.

But it's so much easier to just tell the 1% they need to pay their fair share, even though they pay about 20x their fair share in federal income tax if you really break it down.
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Old Today, 02:35 PM
 
Location: la la land
28,589 posts, read 12,095,917 times
Reputation: 20201
Quote:
Originally Posted by steveklein View Post
I bet I can find an apartment for rent that someone could afford working minimum wage in just about every state... if not every state. And again, you seem to think that someone who has no real job skills deserves something more than an absolute bare bones existence. They already get subsidized schools, roads, healthcare... and yes... take home pay.

Yet you think those who aren't producing should be subsidized even more. When you subsidize a behavior, you get more of that behavior. When you tax it, you get less. Think about that before you want to take from the successful and give to those who aren't producing (with a big bureaucratic tax to boot).

I'll let you connect the ironic dots.

People who have my work ethic wouldn't stay at a minimum wage job for long. If they had my work ethic from elementary school age, they would certainly not be working a minimum wage job. Guess what? Working hard from age 8 to 25 matters. I don't feel bad for people who didn't discover their work ethic until adulthood.

But this idea that it is impossible to live on minimum wage is a joke. It can be done. You just have to make concessions.

I also noticed you specifically said native citizen folks. Do you recognize that millions upon millions of illegal immigrants who come here without job skills are watering down the wages for citizens and legal immigrants who also have little to no job skills? Because I'm with you there. Life in the bottom quartile is definitely tougher because of the influx of superfluous labor.
That's largely inaccurate, and immigrants take jobs Americans don't want and won't do for any amount of money. My cousin has pecan orchards and uses e-verify, she can't get a citizen to work for her for more than a week before they demand their paycheck and never come back, and she pays people well, usually $14-$16 an hour but people won't quit their job at the local warehouse where they make $11 an hour to work on a farm 40 miles away for $14 and hour and end up unemployed after 8 or 10 weeks. Citizens don't want to work in poultry and meat processing plants because it's disgustingly filthy work and they won't wear diapers like immigrants will so that the managers don't have to give them bathroom breaks.

You need to get out more, maybe everything is peachy where you live but it's not that way in most parts of the Country.
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Old Today, 02:45 PM
 
Location: Aurora Denveralis
4,653 posts, read 1,537,846 times
Reputation: 6730
Quote:
Originally Posted by steveklein View Post
And maybe if the government didn't subsdize housing and force developers to provide housing for low-income people instead of letting the market run its course, rents wouldn't be so high.
Horse manure. The tiny percentages of "affordable" housing the big mean gummint forces developers to include - to replace the truly affordable apartments and homes they bulldozed to build their luxe condo tower - in no way drives rent costs many tiers up.

Quote:
And maybe if the government would take more steps to reduce the glut of unskilled labor we have through both education and border security, wages wouldn't be so stagnant.
Immigrants are not taking any jobs "good white folk" will do. And you know it.

And there is no point in educating people for jobs that don't exist. Even the nominally educated - 4 year degrees - are scratching and struggling for jobs in most markets, and filling downward those jobs that are supposed to be the province of the less educated. There are fewer and fewer jobs... and there is no solution to that problem.

Quote:
But it's so much easier to just tell the 1% they need to pay their fair share, even though they pay about 20x their fair share in federal income tax if you really break it down.
Which has next to nothing to do with anything in this thread, but clearly is such a painful boil on your 78% butt that you can't help working it in.
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