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Old 02-17-2019, 11:43 PM
 
Location: Washington State
129 posts, read 88,078 times
Reputation: 349

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Quote:
Originally Posted by CrownVic95 View Post
Good post and I fully agree with your position. And, to be clear, I strongly support the police. I don't, however, support lawyers who mar the justice system with fabricated concept that could never pass the most fundamental right/wrong test.
I agree with you. At the end of the day. Any issues the court system has, is with the whole court system, judge on down. It's not only the police.
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Old 02-18-2019, 04:26 AM
 
Location: New York Area
15,409 posts, read 6,061,110 times
Reputation: 12008
I hope I got the "quotes within quotes" right. That being said, here goes.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sylentvoyce View Post
As an above poster stated, the laws are heavily in bias of the police. The system of innocent until proven guilty seems to be more of slogan than an actual application. If that statement is true, than even in that situation, the robber is still an innocent citizen until proven guilty beyond reasonable doubt in a court of law.
The laws must have that bias because the essential question is,"did the accused commit the crime?" As a civilized society we don't allow cops to torture an accused into a false confession. We systemically exclude certain confessions, such as many, though not all, outside the presence of counsel. If the police, say, cannot produce an untainted confession or witnesses, the accused must walk. But the substantive law, i.e. no robbery or larceny, does favor the police because normally the police have a reason for an arrest.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ncole1 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by sylentvoyce View Post
If the robber was packing a fake gun than a good attorney can argue that from the beginning there was no intent to kill at all. There was intent to scare, intimidate, and maybe even suicide by cop. But, I am willing to hedge a bet that even the robber thought that the police had to be competent enough to not shoot each other up in their moment of blind panic.

I guess though, that would be giving police too much credit.
Even with no felony murder rule, a simple second-degree robbery conviction can carry a sentence of up to 15 years in prison in New York State. This is comparable to what many get for manslaughter or even aggravated manslaughter.

**********

Thus, the prosecution might be able to offer a plea deal to a 15-year sentence for 'simple' robbery in the second degree, without offending the people who view the crime as a manslaughter.
That is quite likely the actual outcome. The defense doesn't want a trial because there is little question that the Defendant is a criminal. This is not a case where the police were trying to arrest an innocent person. The intent that was transferred was the accused's attempt to commit a robbery. That is the "felony murder" rule. That the gun may have been fake or the accused attempting "suicide-by-cop" is irrelevant. His actions unleashed a tragic chain of events that otherwise would not have occurred. The cop had absolutely no interest in killing another cop.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sylentvoyce View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by ncole1 View Post
Good post and I fully agree with your position. And, to be clear, I strongly support the police. I don't, however, support lawyers who mar the justice system with fabricated concept that could never pass the most fundamental right/wrong test.
In reality, a good lawyer will get the murder charges reduced. Murder has to have intent as well.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sylentvoyce View Post
I agree with you. At the end of the day. Any issues the court system has, is with the whole court system, judge on down. It's not only the police.
Let's get one thing clear; a lawyer must use all the tools available to represent the client. It is not up to the lawyer to make a right/wrong decision and place himself on the side of the People or the judge. We have an "adversarial" system of justice in the U.S., Britain and Canada. In Europe the system is a collective search for the truth. We just don't have that here.
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