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Old 02-18-2019, 02:29 PM
 
Location: 912 feet above sea level
1,974 posts, read 720,662 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JONOV View Post
That's WAY up there, but all the same MN isn't the place I'd go in this country if I wanted to be left alone by the Government.
Yes, I'm sure there are other states that where it's much easier to get away with marrying underage girls.
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Old 02-18-2019, 02:31 PM
 
Location: South Carolina
13,445 posts, read 18,168,981 times
Reputation: 23440
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruth4Truth View Post
Ah! Right. People don't think straight in cults. That's so sad.

OK, so, back to my other points, since outsiders know it's a cult, why do they look the other way? Again--where is CPS? Why does LE enable the abuse by looking the other way?

On a bright note, did y'all hear that the Pope fired a Cardinal for sex abuse? Way to go, Pope! There's hope, yet.


They don't allow cps on their property and they don't even open the door to them . And by the time they go get a warrant the people involved are gone or moved pronto . I read some books on the subject and the men in these fundamentalist groups have all the power the women have none . also some of these leaders have 3-4 or more wives and numerous children . I read where one of the male leaders had 27 children if you counted . Those groups are truly beyond control .I saw where one of their group did not even know that warren jepps was in prison and was never getting out and she said they announced in the compound that they were never told that Jepps was not coming back . These people are not educated for a reason they want to control them so they control what education they get as well .
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Old 02-18-2019, 02:40 PM
 
Location: on the wind
5,551 posts, read 2,143,518 times
Reputation: 19176
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruth4Truth View Post
Ah! Right. People don't think straight in cults. That's so sad.

OK, so, back to my other points, since outsiders know it's a cult, why do they look the other way? Again--where is CPS? Why does LE enable the abuse by looking the other way?

On a bright note, did y'all hear that the Pope fired a Cardinal for sex abuse? Way to go, Pope! There's hope, yet.
These are crimes that depend on victims coming forward. If they are all in cult mode they aren't coming forward because they don't feel they are victims. Outsiders can't see inside. The crimes are not resulting in gunshots or visual signs of abuse, it's internal so easy to hide. Or, they are convinced there's no way to escape and are afraid. Outsiders are evil and not to be trusted. They are not raised or permitted to be independent impartial thinkers. If the church has infiltrated or saturated local business (which often ends up meaning local government) they are also not "seeing" crime, they are seeing righteousness.

Last edited by Parnassia; 02-18-2019 at 02:53 PM..
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Old 02-18-2019, 03:05 PM
 
Location: State of Transition
75,329 posts, read 67,105,367 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Parnassia View Post
These are crimes that depend on victims coming forward. If they are all in cult mode they aren't coming forward because they don't feel they are victims. Outsiders can't see inside. The crimes are not resulting in gunshots or visual signs of abuse, it's internal so easy to hide. Or, they are convinced there's no way to escape and are afraid. Outsiders are evil and not to be trusted. They are not raised or permitted to be independent impartial thinkers. If the church has infiltrated or saturated local business (which often ends up meaning local government) they are also not "seeing" crime, they are seeing righteousness.
This is what I was wondering--have they infiltrated social service structures in the community? Awful! Do these kids go to public school? I guess they're home-schooled?
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Old 02-18-2019, 03:12 PM
 
Location: on the wind
5,551 posts, read 2,143,518 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruth4Truth View Post
This is what I was wondering--have they infiltrated social service structures in the community? Awful! Do these kids go to public school? I guess they're home-schooled?
They are taught that anyone outside the church is evil, influenced by the devil, cannot be trusted, and is dangerous. Homeschooled? They often have little to no formal education (outside religious teachings, cooking, cleaning, breeding kids) at all. Ignorance keeps them trapped. They end up realizing they have no skills, no knowledge about the outside, no way to earn a living, so they stay.
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Old 02-18-2019, 03:29 PM
 
Location: Raleigh
7,625 posts, read 5,627,678 times
Reputation: 10502
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruth4Truth View Post
Ah! Right. People don't think straight in cults. That's so sad.

OK, so, back to my other points, since outsiders know it's a cult, why do they look the other way? Again--where is CPS? Why does LE enable the abuse by looking the other way?

On a bright note, did y'all hear that the Pope fired a Cardinal for sex abuse? Way to go, Pope! There's hope, yet.
You have to prove it. And not to circle back to "Its a Cult," again, but a huge majority of those involved have been so desensitized to it that gaining their cooperation isn't exactly easy. So even if you think a 13 year old is married to an adult, you have to get some corroboration, evidence, etc...It isn't as if they're going to school on the schoolbus and sitting in class with their Atheist, Catholic, Jewish, Methodist and Buddhist classmates. They live way out in the desolate western states for a reason.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hulsker 1856 View Post
Yes, I'm sure there are other states that where it's much easier to get away with marrying underage girls.
I'm not kidding when I say this, but you are right. The more sentiment expressed similar to what Vegabern noted below, the more likely it is that this happens. It isn't as if they are getting marriage certificates at the courthouse.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vegabern View Post
I remember the outrage by certain segments of our society when the authorities raided one of the compounds a few years ago. Big Government they whined.
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Old 02-18-2019, 04:26 PM
 
Location: State of Transition
75,329 posts, read 67,105,367 times
Reputation: 72313
Quote:
Originally Posted by Parnassia View Post
They are taught that anyone outside the church is evil, influenced by the devil, cannot be trusted, and is dangerous. Homeschooled? They often have little to no formal education (outside religious teachings, cooking, cleaning, breeding kids) at all. Ignorance keeps them trapped. They end up realizing they have no skills, no knowledge about the outside, no way to earn a living, so they stay.
That's illegal. The US has universal schooling. How do these communities get away with it? Didn't those communities used to get raided by police, back in the 50's/60's? What happened to that? Why have local, state or federal authorities just rolled over and died on this issue? If the kids aren't registered in school anywhere, nor as being home-schooled, that's grounds right there for state or federal law enforcement to address the matter.
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Old 02-18-2019, 05:14 PM
Status: "I am The Traveler" (set 14 days ago)
 
Location: state of transition
83 posts, read 33,167 times
Reputation: 177
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruth4Truth View Post
That's illegal. The US has universal schooling. How do these communities get away with it? Didn't those communities used to get raided by police, back in the 50's/60's? What happened to that? Why have local, state or federal authorities just rolled over and died on this issue? If the kids aren't registered in school anywhere, nor as being home-schooled, that's grounds right there for state or federal law enforcement to address the matter.

Actually, the US does not have "universal schooling". Schooling is dictated at a state level. Many states allow students to be home schooled without having any kind of regulation. Arizona is an example. Look at the fundamentalist hate pastor, Steven Anderson, from the Faithful Word Baptist Church. His equally hate-filled wife homeschools their 11 children and makes videos on Youtube about what a "wonderful" teacher she is. Her materials are all sub par and biblical based. The daughters get a lesser education than the sons and she said that is because women are not supposed to worry about careers. They are to be mothers, sisters, and daughters. But, Arizona's government is such a way where she will not be held accountable for this.
Fundamentalists and cult members tend to operate in these places where schools are not good and school laws are lax. (Why does this garbage not happen in NJ/NY/CT and MA where schools are top rated?)
I used to work in education and this is very sad. I feel your pain and rage, Ruth, and it's justified.
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Old 02-18-2019, 05:19 PM
 
21,169 posts, read 27,192,436 times
Reputation: 14885
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruth4Truth View Post
That's illegal. The US has universal schooling. How do these communities get away with it? Didn't those communities used to get raided by police, back in the 50's/60's? What happened to that? Why have local, state or federal authorities just rolled over and died on this issue? If the kids aren't registered in school anywhere, nor as being home-schooled, that's grounds right there for state or federal law enforcement to address the matter.
A lot of these kids don't even legally exist — as in no social security number, record of birth, etc.

Quote:
Didn't those communities used to get raided by police, back in the 50's/60's?
You must be talking about the Short Creek Raid. Lot of good that did anyone.

Last edited by Metlakatla; 02-18-2019 at 05:30 PM..
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Old 02-18-2019, 05:55 PM
 
Location: Washington state
4,995 posts, read 2,512,144 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruth4Truth View Post
Really? Still? Where are the CPS people? Why doesn't anyone care about the children? How can law enforcement look the other way??!!! Why doesn't anyone care about the trauma those very young teens are experiencing? Wasn't one of the girls that Jeffs "married" only 12 years old?

WTF is wrong with people??! The world has gone mad!

CPS can't get near them. They'll hide the children and stonewall the authorities. They'll also threaten outsiders who even just drive through their towns.

Back in the 50s, there was a raid on the polygamists in Short Creek (today known as the twin cities of Colorado City and Hildale). Journalist took photos of children being taken from their mothers' arms and the upshot was so much bad publicity, nothing was done again until the raid in Texas. Even that almost became a fiasco.

I remember being on a forum then and people were enraged and going on and on about it being discrimination against religion and how the government just needed to stay out of their lives. There were huge pictures of the crying children being loaded onto buses and the crying mothers being stood off.

It took weeks to investigate and by that time, the articles finally saying that yes, some of the mothers were pregnant at 15 and yes, there were definitely child brides, were buried in the back pages.

I'm not sure if you also know that in the towns of Colorado City and Hildale, the mayor and the police department are all part of this cult. Women who want to leave literally have to escape. Women who leave and are caught are returned to their husbands and fathers by the local police.

The compounds are like the Scientology compounds as well. I don't know if the one in Texas is still occupied, but I do know they have a compound in Colorado and one in South Dakota. All these compounds are in the middle of nowhere, surrounded by fencing and barbed wired, and are guarded with cameras and men with weapons.

There are also compounds in Mexico and Canada and they regularly trade girls from there among the other American compounds. Why the FBI can't get them for trafficking is beyond me. And why the Canadians don't put their foot down is something else I don't understand.

The polygamists cost their states a ton of money. When everyone else is complaining about the welfare moochers, they are the worst. In most states, the cost is $1 spent on welfare to $1 received. In Arizona and Utah, the cost is $4 spent to every $1 received. The men marry one woman and then the rest are just spiritual wives. Those "wives" go into the welfare offices and get welfare as a single mother with children. They're encouraged to do that and think it's no shame - they call it "bleeding the beast".

There was a TV show on not too long called "Escape from Polygamy" and it was really an eye opener. It was about a group of former men and women who had escaped the cult and who help other people stuck in the compounds to escape and start over again.

There is a movie about a woman getting out of the compound and for a movie, it's pretty a pretty good example of what goes on there. It's on YouTube if anyone wants to watch it and if you don't mind watching it in parts.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=64Tr...2Xf3jKmrCl7Bjq

Another show that is excellent to watch about the FLDS is a documentary called Prophet's Prey. It's based on the book of the same name by Sam Brower and tells about his 7 year investigation that cracked the case to convict Jeffs. The documentary also features Jon Krakauer, who wrote Under the Banner of Heaven, another excellent read.

I do want to remind people that when they read about Jeffs' group, the FLDS, do not forget that the FLDS and Jeffs' group are not the only polygamous groups out there. There are many offshoots of the FLDS still running compounds and marrying off underage girls. The FLDS in Colorado City and Hildale are just one of the larger and most conspicuous groups, but certainly not the only one.
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