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Old 03-17-2019, 08:03 PM
 
Location: East of the Mississippi and South of Bluegrass
4,356 posts, read 3,606,081 times
Reputation: 9356

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Quote:
Originally Posted by AnnaGWS View Post
She could have anonymously left the baby in a church, hospital, or any other public place. She left the baby in a ditch in freezing cold temperatures. To die.

What she did was cold-hearted and cold blooded. While I could have empathized with her situation, the way she handled it leaves me with empathy only for the baby.

How do you know she felt anything about it in the aftermath?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Metlakatla View Post
This happened when this girl was 19, and apparently, she was living in her own apartment.

I keep seeing people mentioning how terrified she must have been. Of what? She wasn't a young teen living at home, and this happened in 1981, not 1681.

Even if she were so "terrified" that she hid the pregancy, she could have left it on a doorstep, rang the bell, and run instead of leaving the infant in a ditch to freeze.

Lock her up.
With all due respect fellow posters, AnnaGWS and Metlakatla, both of your opinions (opinions being the operative word here) are valid...as is mine and I stand by it.

No, I don't know that "she felt anything in the aftermath" but again, with all due respect...neither do you, one way or the other. Plain and simple.

No, "she wasn't a young teen living at home" but as I have indicated in my post, I personally would prefer to know more about her life and circumstances, 19 years old tells me nothing. But hey, that's just MY opinion and view on the matter.

In the end the justice system will determine her fate, not anyone here at city-data.

Carry on.
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Old 03-17-2019, 08:33 PM
 
21,364 posts, read 27,342,314 times
Reputation: 15420
Quote:
Originally Posted by HomeIsWhere... View Post
With all due respect fellow posters, AnnaGWS and Metlakatla, both of your opinions (opinions being the operative word here) are valid...as is mine and I stand by it.

No, I don't know that "she felt anything in the aftermath" but again, with all due respect...neither do you, one way or the other. Plain and simple.

No, "she wasn't a young teen living at home" but as I have indicated in my post, I personally would prefer to know more about her life and circumstances, 19 years old tells me nothing. But hey, that's just MY opinion and view on the matter.

In the end the justice system will determine her fate, not anyone here at city-data.

Carry on.
So stand by it. I was only pointing out that she was a grown woman living on her own when this happened, and because of that, the scenario another poster witnessed with her sister was unlikely to occur. So you keep your opinion, and I'll keep mine that it would have been easier to leave the baby on a doorstep than in a frozen ditch no matter what she was so "terrified" of.

As for the other poster who suggested she was afraid she'd be punished by the legal system if she dropped the baby off at a hospital or whatever because safe haven laws didn't exist then, you'd think she would have been more concerned about the law if anyone saw her deliberately commit a greater crime by leaving the baby outside to freeze.
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Old 03-17-2019, 08:46 PM
 
Location: Mid-Atlantic
23,968 posts, read 22,952,754 times
Reputation: 29349
Quote:
Originally Posted by Metlakatla View Post
This happened when this girl was 19, and apparently, she was living in her own apartment.

I keep seeing people mentioning how terrified she must have been. Of what? She wasn't a young teen living at home, and this happened in 1981, not 1681.

Even if she were so "terrified" that she hid the pregancy, she could have left it on a doorstep, rang the bell, and run instead of leaving the infant in a ditch to freeze.

Lock her up.
I wasn't suggesting that she be given a pat on the back and sent home. It's quite obvious that she was terrified of someone. Maybe her boyfriend?

Leaving an infant in a ditch to freeze isn't something that most people would do, so something prompted that.
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Old 03-17-2019, 08:56 PM
 
21,364 posts, read 27,342,314 times
Reputation: 15420
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gerania View Post
I wasn't suggesting that she be given a pat on the back and sent home. It's quite obvious that she was terrified of someone. Maybe her boyfriend?

Leaving an infant in a ditch to freeze isn't something that most people would do, so something prompted that.
Murder of any kind isn't something most people would do, but I don't notice much hand wringing about how they must have been driven to it by terror of some kind.

She's married to the guy who fathered the baby and had two more kids with him.

No matter how "terrified" she was, it would have been easier to leave the baby in the restroom of a local mall or on a doorstep than to abandon him in a ditch.
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Old 03-18-2019, 12:15 AM
 
Location: colorado springs, CO
4,521 posts, read 2,069,227 times
Reputation: 15516
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2mares View Post
Glad things worked out well for you.
As if she couldn’t have done the same. She chose not to because she’s either intellectually disabled (& the father should face charges if so) or she’s just a gross POS.

There was nothing wrong with “the world” or “society” that had anything to do with what she did. It was the 1980s in the USA; wasn’t going to get any better than that & if you or anyone else was one of us; I’d consider your point of view but if not you just don’t know any better.

I do.
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Old 03-18-2019, 07:43 AM
 
Location: Cumberland Co., TN
21,032 posts, read 21,196,154 times
Reputation: 21054
Quote:
Originally Posted by coschristi View Post
As if she couldn’t have done the same. She chose not to because she’s either intellectually disabled (& the father should face charges if so) or she’s just a gross POS.

There was nothing wrong with “the world” or “society” that had anything to do with what she did. It was the 1980s in the USA; wasn’t going to get any better than that & if you or anyone else was one of us; I’d consider your point of view but if not you just don’t know any better.

I do.
You don't know other peoples circumstances. Her metal state, her family situation, support from friends, family, the childs father, available programs in here rural city/town. Saying I did XYZ so everyone should/could XYZ doesnt really work.

One of us, a unmarried pregnant teen, yeah. And things were not that great in 1980 for unwed pregnant teens. There was still much stigma attached and not a lot of availability of support services.

Before safe haven laws it was considered criminal abandonment with penalties from 1-10 years. So the thinking was remove this and reduce the number of newborns abandoned alone to die. I'm not sure how much it helped, kind of hard to quantify but I'm sure there are studies. I'm sure penalizing a desperate woman who would leave her newborn at a fire station didnt help matters though.
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Old 03-18-2019, 07:48 AM
 
3,317 posts, read 809,304 times
Reputation: 2675
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2mares View Post
There were not safe haven laws in 1981. She would have been arrested and she was probably in denial about the pregnancy and birth.

I have mixed feelings about this. On one hand I guess its good the case was solved. On the other, putting all that time and energy into investigating and prosecuting a woman 38 years later for something she did as a scared 19 year old seems fruitless. Either way it is sad and shameful that that a woman would leave her newborn to die and more so that our society would support conditions where a women would feel so shamed, scared and alone that it would seem her only option.
Poor thing. If this was the kid's father would you be saying this? It was society's fault?
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Old 03-18-2019, 07:51 AM
 
3,317 posts, read 809,304 times
Reputation: 2675
Quote:
Originally Posted by coschristi View Post
Man, it's getting deep in here!



Well, there but for the grace of God went them! Good God, this was in 1981 in the U.S.; not some radical Muslim state in the M.E. where it's an; "Off with your head; Infidel!" scenario. This woman gets no pass from me whatsoever (not that my opinion will matter); so what if she was 19 in 1981 & "scared"?

I was a 17-year-old runaway in 1985 & terrified ... I went to the county Health Department clinic & got myself signed up for prenatal care. After months of no-contact with my parents, I brought my mom flowers on Mother's Day & told my parents that they were going to be grandparents soon. I was so scared I puked in the car 3 times on my way over there. I "told" my 20-year-old boyfriend to quit d***ing around with his under-the-table carpet-laying endeavor & to get a real job because I would not be "bringing home baby" to his parent's trailer.

There was plenty of "help" available in the 1980s, I should know; I was the poster-child (not literally) for "Unwed Teenage Mom Living In Poverty". I took the bus to the food pantry, was enrolled in WIC, signed up for LEAP to help pay for utilities & the county gave me vouchers for the local thrift stores & turned my name into a charity organization that sent "church ladies" over to see me every month. Which was slightly annoying but they meant well. When I told them I could just use a dresser drawer as a baby bed, they brought me a bassinet. The hospital sent me home with a car seat, several packages of diapers & a rectal thermometer, bulb syringe, a few receiving blankets & bathing items. You know; because I was a "county patient".

I declined welfare/food stamps because I wasn't raised that way but I wasn't going to turn down tangible donations & anyone who felt differently about the "dole" had that option available to them if they wanted to. We are talking 1980s, people.

WTF do "Safe-Haven" laws have to do with anything? You either leave the baby on a doorstep & run, or you arrange for adoption. Plenty of other girls put their babies up for adoption in the 1980s; I'm pretty sure nobody got tarred & feathered. Put the baby on a doorstep? Don't get caught. Or; go to court for putting a baby on a doorstep. Big deal. Compared to going to court for Murder; at least.

The only thing this woman was a "victim" of was probably being born during the last years of the Boomer's generation & getting pregnant in 1981; when the only people suffering the consequences of the "novelty lifestyles" & the non-traditional gender roles were the kids & teenagers. Unlike those who promoted it. Oh well; I missed that party & got caught up in that agenda too but there were options to Murder, for crap's sake!

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Old 03-18-2019, 08:13 AM
 
Location: Cumberland Co., TN
21,032 posts, read 21,196,154 times
Reputation: 21054
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grlzrl View Post
Poor thing. If this was the kid's father would you be saying this? It was society's fault?
IMO (from the article) the father knew what was going on, probably had a hand in it. He was her boyfriend, obviously they were having sex and he "saw a bump then he didnt see a bump". You think you could be intimate with a boyfriend (you later married) and he wouldnt have a clue you were pregnant and had a child?
And yes I would feel the same. I realize the statute of limitations does not apply to murder but I just sometimes wonder how fruitful it is spending resources on decade old cases where the perpetrator is not a danger to society. That is my opinion. It doesn't mean I'm biased or prejudice toward who the defendant is.

BTW, I never said it was societies fault. So I'm not sure why you insinuate that. I'm pointing out that society, since basically recorded time, has placed such guilt, shame, and sin (not to mention excommunicating, branding, beating, killing) on a woman for being pregnant out of wedlock that it has driven women to abandonment and infanticide. Apparently there are still issues even today as it is still occurring.
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Old 03-18-2019, 08:23 AM
 
1,089 posts, read 734,619 times
Reputation: 3851
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2mares View Post
Not arguing but what sort of options did she have 38 years ago as an pregnant unmarried teenager?
I have also read some "experts" say that newborn abandonment is normally not premeditated but impulsive.
There is always adoption and even though there wasn't any safe haven laws, it still would have been better to at least to place the baby where she could have been found and most likely the law would have gone easier on her.
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