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Old Yesterday, 06:40 AM
 
6,386 posts, read 3,418,573 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ocnjgirl View Post
The parents mailed the checks to a charity they knew was a fraud. That poster gave you links to mail fraud and honest services fraud that explains them (although in very legalese language):


"Whoever, having devised or intending to devise any scheme or artifice to defraud, or for obtaining money or property by means of false or fraudulent pretenses, representations, or promises, or to sell, dispose of, loan, exchange, alter, give away, distribute, supply, or furnish or procure for unlawful use any counterfeit or spurious coin, obligation, security, or other article, or anything represented to be or intimated or held out to be such counterfeit or spurious article, for the purpose of executing such scheme or artifice or attempting so to do, places in any post office or authorized depository for mail matter, any matter or thing whatever to be sent or delivered by the Postal Service, or deposits or causes to be deposited any matter or thing whatever to be sent or delivered by any private or commercial interstate carrier, or takes or receives therefrom, any such matter or thing, or knowingly causes to be delivered by mail or such carrier according to the direction thereon, or at the place at which it is directed to be delivered by the person to whom it is addressed, any such matter or thing, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than 20 years, or both
That's my point. What did they obtain? They paid for the school. What was the school defrauded of? Everyone is throwing around words like fraud and bribery but I'm trying to find the actual criminal event. What is the law on bribing a private employee vs public servant? Perhaps this is the wrong forum to ask because I'm interested in a legal understanding. How does a prosecution build a case? How would the defense proceed? Could they even get a fair trial given the publicity and prejudgenent going on?
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Old Yesterday, 07:04 AM
 
Location: Wilmington, NC
1,730 posts, read 297,960 times
Reputation: 2817
Quote:
Originally Posted by davidt1 View Post
Anyone familiar with affirmative actions? Less qualified people have been allowed to cut in line all the times. At least rich these kids don't go to college on financial aids and become a burden on taxpayers.
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Old Yesterday, 08:50 AM
 
4,774 posts, read 3,046,033 times
Reputation: 5746
Quote:
Originally Posted by tnff View Post
That's my point. What did they obtain? They paid for the school. What was the school defrauded of? Everyone is throwing around words like fraud and bribery but I'm trying to find the actual criminal event. What is the law on bribing a private employee vs public servant? Perhaps this is the wrong forum to ask because I'm interested in a legal understanding. How does a prosecution build a case? How would the defense proceed? Could they even get a fair trial given the publicity and prejudgenent going on?
From my previous post further up the thread:

Like NorthofHere mentions, it comes down to bribery.

You typically say mail fraud or wire fraud, when a person was trying to cheat another person out of money or property. But sometimes, you’re not trying to cheat someone out of money. Here what you have is they weren’t necessarily cheating the university out of money, (the accused) were getting kickbacks for these kids to get admitted. What’s important here is it was a bribery kickback scheme.

I think honest services fraud is a type of mail fraud. The reason, I assume, the husbands of Huffman and Loughlin weren't charged, is because their name wasn't on the checks or wire transfers. So in a way they sort of "lucked out" even if they knew what their wives were doing.

From Deadspin:

Here Are All The Incredible Details From The College Admissions Bribery Scandal

One prong of the scam required the parents to earn their kids extra time to take the ACT or SAT—often by having them diagnosed with a phony learning disability—so that the test would be administered at a special location where CW-1 could bribe the proctor into altering the scores. Parents also, at CW-1's direction, went about creating fake athletic profiles for their children, which would then allow college coaches and administrators who were in on the scheme to get their kids into school as athletic recruits.


A majority of the fake credentials fabricated by CW-1 and cooperating parents involved pretending the kid in question was a star athlete of some sort, which allowed them to be subject to more lax admissions criteria, or simply gave them leeway to bribe a coach. This dad, for example, tried to get his son into USC and Stanford via the football team despite his son never playing football. The solution was to pretend he was a “kicker/punter” and photoshop his face onto a real kicker for application photos.

Seems pretty clear to me, you pay X amount of dollars to Singer (CW-1) and his fake charity, he then uses that money to bribe test proctors to change test scores or bribes coaches of various sports teams to lie and say your child is a recruit and they want them on their team, then your kid gets accepted to XYZ school!

I'm no lawyer, but you think it's legal to pay someone to use that money to bribe another person to change test scores and/or lie about recruiting your child to play a specific sport in college?

Last edited by cjseliga; Yesterday at 09:19 AM..
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Old Yesterday, 08:54 AM
 
19,181 posts, read 15,835,209 times
Reputation: 36136
Quote:
Originally Posted by davidt1 View Post
Anyone familiar with affirmative actions? Less qualified people have been allowed to cut in line all the times. At least rich these kids don't go to college on financial aids and become a burden on taxpayers.
Been addressed in multiple posts by now.
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Old Yesterday, 08:57 AM
 
19,181 posts, read 15,835,209 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sundaydrive00 View Post
It's a rowing machine, a very common piece of exercise equipment. Even the local YMCA has a few in their workout room.




Because it was all done through her parents.
So she never asked why mom and dad brought the rowing machine outside and asked both of them to pose on it, ok. They never filled out let alone saw their OWN college applications that listed their many rowing accomplishments, ok. During their college interviews, the rowing accomplishments they listed were never brought up..ok.
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Old Yesterday, 09:00 AM
 
19,181 posts, read 15,835,209 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coolgato View Post
Yes, I agree with you in that parents love to show off about their kids and what schools they attend, but most people do see college as a way of securing their future and to be in a position to take advantage of better job opportunities. Most of the kids I went to high school with could have gone on to prestigious colleges but just didn't have the resources to and it really wasn't important to our families to attend an Ivy League college, just as long as we did go to a four year college. College was a life changing experience but it wasn't easy because most of us had to work our way through school, still it was worth it because it opened our world - it isn't about money, but opportunities. In college, it is four years of developing and enriching your mind, achieving goals you've set, and making new ones for the future.

Olivia Jade was not into college, she already found her niche - she was an influencer, her parents should have let it go, she was an adult and able to make an informed decision. She knew what she was, and a student she was not. Actually, lots of kids are skipping college, especially the young and gifted who work in the tech industry, most never attended or dropped out of college.

I think there should be admissions reform, more than the pay for play (seems like it), let's concentrate on legacies - those students that are admitted just because their father or mother, grandparents attended a particular college.
I read neither Lori or her husband finished college and regretted that despite success, so they wanted their kids to get degrees. I DO think Olivia wanted to go though, she did want the college experience.
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Old Yesterday, 09:02 AM
 
19,181 posts, read 15,835,209 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hotkarl View Post
This is nothing new at all. It's totally commonplace.
It's just that 2 families got busted.
Now everyone that never got into college can file a lawsuit.
It is not commonplace to go to these levels of deception, sorry. When have you heard of another case anything similar to this? I feel like you’re falsely equating it with donating to the college or simply using influence.
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Old Yesterday, 09:04 AM
 
19,181 posts, read 15,835,209 times
Reputation: 36136
Quote:
Originally Posted by tnff View Post
That's my point. What did they obtain? They paid for the school. What was the school defrauded of? Everyone is throwing around words like fraud and bribery but I'm trying to find the actual criminal event. What is the law on bribing a private employee vs public servant? Perhaps this is the wrong forum to ask because I'm interested in a legal understanding. How does a prosecution build a case? How would the defense proceed? Could they even get a fair trial given the publicity and prejudgenent going on?
OMG. The government was defrauded, it was tax fraud.
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Old Yesterday, 09:08 AM
 
19,181 posts, read 15,835,209 times
Reputation: 36136
Quote:
Originally Posted by davidt1 View Post
Anyone familiar with affirmative actions? Less qualified people have been allowed to cut in line all the times. At least rich these kids don't go to college on financial aids and become a burden on taxpayers.
They illegally deducted millions of dollars in bribes (collectively) from their taxes. Who do you think paid for that if not tax payers? Also why would you believe every affirmative action student gets or even needs more financial aide than any other student? You don’t really believe every person of color comes from poverty do you??

Last edited by ocnjgirl; Yesterday at 09:16 AM..
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Old Yesterday, 07:33 PM
 
Location: 912 feet above sea level
2,083 posts, read 759,286 times
Reputation: 11481
Quote:
Originally Posted by tnff View Post
That's my point. What did they obtain? They paid for the school. What was the school defrauded of? Everyone is throwing around words like fraud and bribery but I'm trying to find the actual criminal event. What is the law on bribing a private employee vs public servant? Perhaps this is the wrong forum to ask because I'm interested in a legal understanding. How does a prosecution build a case? How would the defense proceed? Could they even get a fair trial given the publicity and prejudgenent going on?
The school advertises admission based on merit. Some students are admitted based on cash payments that go to individuals.

And you don't see the crime...

These stories are fascinating, in that they reveal so much about posters. For some reasons, certain people feel compelled to go into overdrive defending employees that are intentionally breaking not only the terms of their employment responsibilities, but are actively ensuring that less-deserving students get admitted - and receive aid both from the school (ie, from donors to the school, who expect their aid to be distributed on a merit basis) and from the government.

What compels people like you to fall all over yourselves defending those perpetuating fraud? Why do you instinctively identify with those abusing the system and denying admission to those who have earned it, placements which are then steered towards less-accomplished students whose mommies and daddies are lining the pockets of individuals (not even the school!)?

What is wrong with you?
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