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Old Yesterday, 11:50 AM
 
8,844 posts, read 8,991,274 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RationalExpectations View Post
The college I was graduated from was small - it had a bit more than 200 in its freshman class. It has since expanded to a bit over 300, and is considered pretty selective (less than 10% acceptance rate). As a donor to the school (I've endowed a full ride scholarship and a faculty chair, and my name - along with others - is on the side of a a new building), I've had discussions with the president of the college and with a couple trustees regarding expansion, and they are coming up on a hard limit. It seems the city has placed a hard limit on the size of the student body to prevent further expansion.

I don't really understand just how this hard limit works and why the city seems to have a strong voice in the matter. It is probably historical and I don't know the context. But my point is sometimes schools don't have as much flexibility as you might think.

According to the following website: https://www.insidehighered.com/news/...singly-diverse the absolute number of high school graduates going forward is in a decade-long plateau, after having expanded the past couple of decades. Even so, the percentage wishing to attend college is going up.

Another source - The National Center for Education Statistics, which is part of the US Department of Education, says:



My point in the above is that generally speaking, as a nation we probably have too many seats in post-secondary colleges and universities. But those seats are most likely at 3rd rate schools.
Quote:
Originally Posted by RationalExpectations View Post
I have one more thought on the matter.

I did my graduate work at an elite research university, and had the good fortune to take classes from numerous Nobel Laureates. That university's approach to admission to the PhD program at the time was not as selective as one might think. There was a catch: while you were in the PhD program, no one took you seriously until you passed "The Core" - a very rigorous exam after your first year. They actually said, during an orientation, "look at the person to your left and at the person to your right. Two of the three of you will not make it to the 2nd year."

But they gladly took tuition from all three.

That was a long time ago, of course, and they've since changed the way they approach PhD education (they did not offer an MA in my field, only the PhD, as they viewed the MA degree as a consolation prize for those who lacked the ability to earn a PhD).
Its all quite interesting.

However, I think it makes a point that I have been trying to make. That is that most of these are quite elite institutions that are designed to only educate the smallest fraction of those who apply. Perhaps, I would call them "the cream of the cream". Many of the students who apply and are accepted were probably educated in private schools before they reached college entrance age.

Yet, some people here actually suggest that an applicant who can't get into these schools which have about a 4% overall admissions rate are somehow "deficient".

I'm fifty-nine and the more I read this the more I thank the good Lord everyday I never had to go through all this BS. My life fortunately consisted of going to a very average law school, getting a degree, and working for myself for most of my professional life. I have made a pretty good living doing that and so I am able to view all of this in more of curious manner than an angry one.

My undergraduate university, the U of U, had a similar model to what you described. It admitted everyone who graduated from high school and than subjected them to a rigorous academic program. I suspect that about one out of every three of those admitted actually graduated with a degree in four or five years.

What this really is a story of how wealth and position is allocated in this country. Whether it is allocated to the most academically gifted or to those with the most connections, the story is about the same. A small group of people are chosen by this system to be part of a ruling elite or oligarchy.

I personally would like a system that made it possible for a greater number of high school graduates--with potential--to thrive. Ideally, the elite institutions would expand their class sizes and let more people in the doors. Subsequent posts attempt to explain why that has not happened. In a sense students who are less than stellar have that because of the many public colleges and universities. However, the "elite" will always be there and seems predestined to rule over the rest of us in both private and public positions.

I cannot defend cheating or using influence peddling to get your kid into a school. However, I do understand it. Frankly, I'm not satisfied with the system that exists and I wish more people would complain about it and call it out.
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Old Yesterday, 12:27 PM
 
19,222 posts, read 15,861,243 times
Reputation: 36194
Quote:
Originally Posted by RationalExpectations View Post
In this bribery scandal, in several instances the bribes went to the University and not directly to the offending coach.

Those universities have announced they are keeping the bribes. I find that very interesting. Of course, they say they will do good deeds with the bribes - but they are absolutely keeping the bribes.

Universities that were not named in the indictment -- such as the University of Miami -- have said their records show they've received charitable contributions from the bogus charitable foundation involved in the scandal, and they also say they are keeping the bribes.
Can you post a link to this? My impression is the bribes were given to individuals not the universities.
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Old Yesterday, 12:27 PM
 
Location: On the Edge of the Fringe
4,827 posts, read 3,880,346 times
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I swear that I did not know that this kind of activity was illegal.
I promise. I did not know. I grew up and went through colleges around and with actions such as this. I had no idea.sorry
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Old Yesterday, 12:59 PM
Status: "there is no Planet B" (set 4 days ago)
 
Location: Bel Air, California
21,171 posts, read 21,297,255 times
Reputation: 32998
Quote:
Originally Posted by LargeKingCat View Post
I swear that I did not know that this kind of activity was illegal.
I promise. I did not know. I grew up and went through colleges around and with actions such as this. I had no idea.sorry
alright then

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Old Yesterday, 02:48 PM
 
12,050 posts, read 7,151,613 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ocnjgirl View Post
Can you post a link to this? My impression is the bribes were given to individuals not the universities.
Here's one article about the "donations" he was giving to different universities.

https://www.buzzfeednews.com/amphtml...n-college-scam
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Old Yesterday, 02:52 PM
 
Location: Islip Township
478 posts, read 730,180 times
Reputation: 460
Considering the Status of the High and mighty [ and $$$$] very little will be done. Maybe a big show, but then nothing will happen.

Last edited by Nevar242; Yesterday at 03:11 PM..
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Old Yesterday, 03:03 PM
 
19,222 posts, read 15,861,243 times
Reputation: 36194
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sundaydrive00 View Post
Here's one article about the "donations" he was giving to different universities.

https://www.buzzfeednews.com/amphtml...n-college-scam

They were only to his son's University, and to colleges which are not implicated in the scam, and I don't know that they will all keep them:


""We have only just begun to review the origins and purposes of these donations," Beckman said."


None of these schools received bribe money though. Unless you count where Singer's kid is enrolled, but he was already enrolled.
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Old Yesterday, 04:24 PM
Status: "there is no Planet B" (set 4 days ago)
 
Location: Bel Air, California
21,171 posts, read 21,297,255 times
Reputation: 32998
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nevar242 View Post
Considering the Status of the High and mighty [ and $$$$] very little will be done. Maybe a big show, but then nothing will happen.
on the contrary, this is worth at least a few mockumentaries and maybe even a reality show or two
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Old Yesterday, 04:37 PM
 
12,050 posts, read 7,151,613 times
Reputation: 22411
Quote:
Originally Posted by ocnjgirl View Post
They were only to his son's University, and to colleges which are not implicated in the scam, and I don't know that they will all keep them:


""We have only just begun to review the origins and purposes of these donations," Beckman said."


None of these schools received bribe money though. Unless you count where Singer's kid is enrolled, but he was already enrolled.
If you want to believe he was just donating money from his fake charity out of the goodness of his heart, then go for it.

But hopefully all these universities take a closer look at these donations and where they were coming from.
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Old Yesterday, 05:48 PM
 
922 posts, read 187,582 times
Reputation: 1566
Quote:
Originally Posted by vision33r View Post
The charge for cheating wasn't even the serious charge, its tax evasion. Goes to show the government doesn't take the cheating as serious offense.
There have been no charges filed against any parent for tax evasion. The only charges filed against parents have been (a) mail fraud, and (b) honest services mail fraud. The coaches have been charged with racketeering.

You can read the indictment here: https://www.justice.gov/file/1142876/download
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