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Old 03-13-2019, 07:36 AM
 
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I strongly recommend anyone with an interest in the way class plays out in American life read Paul Fussell's book "Class". Though he claimed he wrote it as a satire, it is full of real hard truth.
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Old 03-13-2019, 07:41 AM
 
Location: Wonderland
43,243 posts, read 34,678,228 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by turf3 View Post
I would be interested in taking that test. Is it available on-line somehow?


I say this because I have a wide range of influences on my attitudes from the variety of class placements even within my own family, adding in the high prole and mid prole attitudes of people I've worked with, adding in the attitudes of the uper-middle-class to oh-my-god-wealthy kids I went to school with, and so on. It would be interesting to see how an evaluation tool would assess the way these have come out in me.
There are all sorts of "class tests" online - frankly I took this one a long time ago and I don't remember the name of it! It took about 15 minutes to take. Not a ten question test in other words.

Anyway, I have taken the tests online and I range everywhere from working class to upper middle class - probably because I've been both. But in the more indepth tests, I always end up middle class or maybe upper middle class.

It's very interesting to read how different talents are more or less important depending on different classes. Like for instance, the test I took asked if I had ever put off paying a bill for another week, or paid a fee to bump the full payment another month, or taken out a payday loan, or whatever. I remember that section well. It also asked if I had ever been a member of a sorority, or been a debutante, or if I played golf or tennis regularly, that sort of thing. If I voted, if I was a member of a union, if I considered myself a capitalist, etc.
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Old 03-13-2019, 07:48 AM
 
Location: Wonderland
43,243 posts, read 34,678,228 times
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Originally Posted by turf3 View Post
I'm afraid the problem is that your friend's daughter's associates in a sorority, and their parents, will encounter her parents and conclude "she doesn't come from our sort of people" and those contacts her mother hopes for her, won't come to pass. Somehow Biff and Muffy will always be friendly and courteous, and they'll invite her to their college parties, but when Biff and Muffy (actually B's and M's parents) invite a few kids to spend a month at the cabin over the summer, it'll be other little Biffs and Muffys that get THOSE invitations.


As I get older I am really starting to realize how much my rich upper class classmates kept a tight circle amongst themselves when it came to the real important things that mattered in the area of getting seriously ahead. They may have had friendship, even affection, for me, and certainly respect, but they were not going to introduce me to their dad's friend who had a large business in need of junior executives. That kind of thing is reserved for the kids whose parents have drinks and cards together every Friday night, not the ones whose parents are elementary school teachers and warehousemen.
I TOTALLY agree.

True story about my brother who wanted to be wealthy like all his friends.

He married a young woman who was also from an "upwardly mobile" family - a family with "one dimensional wealth" as I like to call it - no trust fund, no generations of wealth, but the mom and dad had made good money, and sent her to a "good" college and all that. My brother's wedding was big, in a big church, and frankly I felt like it was ostentatious.

And of course, my brother had no intention of working - he expected to "inherit" my dad's business and money and just lollygag around with his rich drinking buddies. But his wife, with her hardworking middle class but wannabe wealthy parents, was climbing that corporate ladder, working her tail off. My brother became all drag and no lift, and eventually they got divorced. I saw that one coming a mile off.

Anyway, I will never forget a phone call my dad made to her dad when things were unraveling. He was apologizing to her dad for my brother's behavior, and expressing concern for the wife, and offering to help, to at least keep lines of communication open between the families as the marriage fell apart. And the father said this:

"No thank you. Actually, we are disappointed in G______. We feel as if your family and he deceived us."

Then he hung up. That is when I realized that they had thought that their daughter was marrying into old money. I never liked them anyway - I felt like they were a very pretentious lot and were always trying to climb the social ladder, and I could have told them they bet on the wrong horse - but no one ever asked me.
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Old 03-13-2019, 07:51 AM
 
19,143 posts, read 15,820,127 times
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Originally Posted by jamary1 View Post
Easiest thing in the world. The student shows up for the first game/match/event and then is cut from the team. An injury can be faked, if needed. The student is still a student at the university, he just isn't on the team. It's not like he needs to worry about losing his athletic scholarship...….if Mom and Pop can spend that kind of money on getting him admitted, they can certainly afford to pay his tuition.
Yes, I heard last night that what they would do is quit as soon as they got to school. I think in some cases this may have been done for them. The one picture that keeps being shown of the guy going over the high jump bar which was photo shopped, apparently that kid did not know his parents were doing it. So maybe the coach took the bride just arrange to take him off the books or put down that he quit once he got there.

A woman’s soccer coach at Yale got $400,000 just for getting one student in!
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Old 03-13-2019, 07:52 AM
 
19,143 posts, read 15,820,127 times
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Originally Posted by Slater View Post
These are just the cases that have been exposed. Who knows the true extent of all this?
This one guy Singer said he helped about 760 students get into college through that “side door”. But there’s nothing special about this guy, and no reason to think there isnt dozens more just like him.
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Old 03-13-2019, 07:55 AM
 
Location: Wonderland
43,243 posts, read 34,678,228 times
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Originally Posted by turf3 View Post
Last comment on this subject for a while:


I strongly recommend anyone with an interest in the way class plays out in American life read Paul Fussell's book "Class". Though he claimed he wrote it as a satire, it is full of real hard truth.
I am going to check that out.

Another interesting book, is Bruce Feiler's "Looking For Class" about his year or two at Oxford and Cambridge- I can't recall how he actually got into those schools but he was definitely a fish out of water. I actually really like all his books. He manages over and over again to join subcultures and then he writes about them - not in ridiculing ways, but they are fascinating. For instance, he taught English after college, in Japan, in a little village, and he writes about his social experiences there. Then he worked for a year in a circus and he wrote about traveling with a circus. He worked for a year or two in the country music industry in Nashville and writes about that. Truly fascinating and all these books touch on class and values.

https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/...king_for_Class
https://www.google.com/search?q=book...hrome&ie=UTF-8
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Old 03-13-2019, 07:56 AM
 
19,143 posts, read 15,820,127 times
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Originally Posted by cebuan View Post
Wait a minute -- You mean a lot if rich kids were going to Ivy League schools, because they're rich? Joe Kennedy sent Jack to Harvard, without pulling any strings?
Pulling strings is a far cry from having an imposter take a test for you, or Photoshop your head on to an athlete body. I don’t think I would call UCLA or USC Ivy League schools in any case. Most of the schools on the list were not Ivy League I don’t think.

Yes however your point is well taken. Rich people have always had an edge even if they’re just able to hire consultants. They said that they hire consultants that cost about $70,000 they follow the kid from seventh grader so on and tell them exactly what courses to take what extracurricular us to take what to do in the summer. Nothing illegal at all about it however it does give the edge to children of parents with means.

The “traditional” way of getting your otherwise unaccomplished kid into an Ivy League school, is to for the parent to donate enough money to buy a building, like they did for Jarod Kushner at Yale. Perfectly legal.
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Old 03-13-2019, 07:58 AM
 
19,143 posts, read 15,820,127 times
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Originally Posted by tnff View Post
Where are you getting this information? I didn't see anything about their SAT scores and grades being mediocre. For all we know their grades were just fine. Separate issue from buying admission to ensure they are socializing among the right power players.
They certainly weren’t good enough to get them into the schools they wanted to get into.
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Old 03-13-2019, 07:59 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Texamichiforniasota View Post
Yeah, I had 2 HS football teammates that basically pulled this, with the exception of bribing the coach. They both had good grades and SAT scores, but at highly selective schools probably 4 x as many people have good enough grades and SATs to get in as the number that are actually accepted. So, my teammates, who were decent O-lineman but not quite athletic scholarship material out of HS (but likely would have been with a couple of years of being walk ons) went through the recruiting process and basically used it as their leg up to get into highly selective universities by being granted walk on spots. One did one season and then quit, but still got his degree from a school with an acceptance rate in the single digits, the other called the coach up the day before they were supposed to report for practice his freshman year and told him he wasn't going to play. I lost touch with the first, the second is a surgeon now.
Least they were actually athletes, LOL. These kids never even played the sport they got accepted for.
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Old 03-13-2019, 08:01 AM
 
19,143 posts, read 15,820,127 times
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Originally Posted by PamelaIamela View Post
Because the highest value (other than life itself) is not goodness or money or power or beauty or fame or achievement. It is STATUS which is derived as a result of a combination of those things.
These parents didn't just want spoiled rich ordinary children. There are tons of those.
They wanted highly regarded special children from prestigious schools which would give them a leg up on the status ladder.
And money was no object.

I'm sick of hearing the nauseating phrase 'perception is reality'; it is the last refuge of liars and cheats.
When enough people accept such nonsense as true we have entered the realm where delusion reigns.
We're halfway there now.
As for me, I choose the RED pill.
Since when is the university of Texas at Austin and USC “status” schools? The only ones on the list that I would consider status school to be Georgetown and Yale.

I think in the case of Lori Loughlin, maybe she just wanted her kid to go to college close to home I don’t know.
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