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Old Yesterday, 09:35 AM
 
Location: A Yankee in northeast TN
10,007 posts, read 13,884,671 times
Reputation: 21694

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gungnir View Post
I don't know I was referring to the shipping company. However it does still reflect on the retailer, because they choose their shipping companies, this shipper is throwing its toys out of the stroller over $3000, that its insured for.
I don't know, it's not as if the retailer has a lot of choices when it comes to shipping to someone's home. Of the three most obvious shippers I don't think any one of them stands out from the others for accuracy of delivery. It's not like I've ever heard anyone say they refuse to order from some place because they use an undependable delivery service.
And in this case at least the shipping company itself doesn't seem to be suffering any negative publicity because as far as I can tell they have yet to be named, smart move on their part.
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Old Yesterday, 09:51 AM
 
Location: Los Angeles
11,765 posts, read 9,787,912 times
Reputation: 31523
Those stating the law allows them to keep whatever they receive but didn't order for free....So does this mean if a recently hired amazon driver on his first delivery accidentally delivers $20,000 in computer equipment to my neighbor instead of me, then the neighbor just won the lottery because the driver was off by 30 feet or so? Seems like this could be abused quite easily to find a loophole for free goods at the retailer's expense.
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Old Yesterday, 10:34 AM
 
308 posts, read 150,051 times
Reputation: 642
I just had a relatable experience happen. I ordered a chicken coop off Amazon. It comes in 2 boxes. Only one box came to me. Got in touch with the company and was able to find out that box two was sent to my name, but at a different address (another state). I think they are sending me a replacement box, but I won't know it's right until it arrives in another week. Meanwhile, what happens to that box they sent to the wrong address? Tracking showed it delivered, no signature required. The address will match where it was delivered, but the name will not. It's a large, heavy box that will be expensive and a pain to return.
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Old Yesterday, 10:49 AM
 
11,852 posts, read 18,023,136 times
Reputation: 18022
Quote:
Originally Posted by aa6660 View Post
I just had a relatable experience happen. I ordered a chicken coop off Amazon. It comes in 2 boxes. Only one box came to me. Got in touch with the company and was able to find out that box two was sent to my name, but at a different address (another state). I think they are sending me a replacement box, but I won't know it's right until it arrives in another week. Meanwhile, what happens to that box they sent to the wrong address? Tracking showed it delivered, no signature required. The address will match where it was delivered, but the name will not. It's a large, heavy box that will be expensive and a pain to return.
Amazon site has all the online tools to quickly register a mistaken shipment online. You obviously will not have to pay for shipment if delivered wrong. Even if you made a mistake, I've found Amazon very forgiving if you have been a long time customer, it if was your mistake and just a one time thing. Don't expect them to write of a $10,000 TV, but $50 or $100 they may not care.
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Old Yesterday, 11:04 AM
 
19,291 posts, read 15,906,160 times
Reputation: 36306
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cloudy Dayz View Post
If it wasn't for sale, then what was the purpose of it being manufactured? Regardless, when received unsolicited, it's a free gift under the law.
It doesn’t always ply as we have tried to explain many times. They are talking about fraud. The FTC is ONLY involved in transactions and laws that involve fraud.
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Old Yesterday, 11:07 AM
 
19,291 posts, read 15,906,160 times
Reputation: 36306
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr_Geek View Post
Those stating the law allows them to keep whatever they receive but didn't order for free....So does this mean if a recently hired amazon driver on his first delivery accidentally delivers $20,000 in computer equipment to my neighbor instead of me, then the neighbor just won the lottery because the driver was off by 30 feet or so? Seems like this could be abused quite easily to find a loophole for free goods at the retailer's expense.
They are wrong. Trying to take a law meant for fraud scam in which people you haven’t dealt with send you things you never ordered and then demand payment. Trying to apply it to this case but it does not.
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Old Yesterday, 11:09 AM
 
19,291 posts, read 15,906,160 times
Reputation: 36306
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gungnir View Post
There was no business transaction between the guy who received the 86" screen accidentally and the retailer. That transaction was for a 72" (or 74" can't remember won't look it up) screen, that he also received.

So his transaction was completed, the 86" TV was never a transaction between him and the retailer. The other TV was IN ADDITION TO his order. So yes indeed he may be entitled to retain it, MA law doesn't discuss fraud, only unsolicited deliveries, as does FTC rules 39 U.S. Code § 3009 - Mailing of unordered merchandise.

The 86" TV was not ordered, it was an unsolicited delivery, the only recourse would be if it could be proven that the receipt of the delivery was fraudulently obtained (i.e. the recipient contrived to take delivery of said item from the courier with intent). This would require that the delivery company holds sufficient evidence, a signature would do it if it only applies to the larger TV, and was clearly indicated it was not for the receiver. A signature that covers both deliveries does not show adequate intent, because he was signing for the TV he ordered. Further the TV packaging if available should be examined for the addressee, if the guy getting the 86" TV is the addressee, that's it, done it's his TV, if it's not then you still have to convince a jury it's normal to verify the address of something you receive, and if it's no longer available there is no evidence the recipient could validate it was not addressed to them, even though the address would have been on that packaging, there's no evidence to show it was delivered to the wrong address.

So it's not clear cut, it may go either way, but the law you keep saying is for fraud, makes no mention of fraud, merely unsolicited deliveries.
That is not considered unsolicited, it is not the same, it just isn’t.

“If you are the one who received anything that wasn’t meant for you, you should contact whoever sent it and ask the shipper to collect the package. Generally, parcels that you received but didn’t actually order can be named as “unsolicited goods”. This doesn’t apply to any parcel that was sent to you by mistake”

This would fall under “mistake”, not fraud.

Last edited by ocnjgirl; Yesterday at 11:19 AM..
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Old Yesterday, 11:18 AM
 
308 posts, read 150,051 times
Reputation: 642
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dd714 View Post
Amazon site has all the online tools to quickly register a mistaken shipment online. You obviously will not have to pay for shipment if delivered wrong. Even if you made a mistake, I've found Amazon very forgiving if you have been a long time customer, it if was your mistake and just a one time thing. Don't expect them to write of a $10,000 TV, but $50 or $100 they may not care.
Unfortunately, I am dealing with an Amazon seller and not Amazon. Amazon is very easy to work with. I am finding this other company (a large company) harder to work with. I am not worried about having to pay again for shipping. I am worried about getting the appropriate box number 2 to match the first box I ordered. The first time I contacted them, they said they could not just send one box and would have resend the entire coop. Fine, but I had to wait until first box 2 was delivered to wrong address before I could ask for it. So, box gets delivered to wrong address this weekend. I send email as instructed. No responses to emails, so I do online chat today. Now, they say (and it is the same agent as before) that they will send out box #2, not another full coop. I'll be pleased if it is the correct one and makes me 'whole', but my confidence is not high right now. Already I am disappointed at how long this is taking. I picked the coop as it was guaranteed in 3 days. We'll now be around 2 weeks if they send out the right box to the right address this time.

(And to edit - only one tracking number in the Amazon system and it is to the box that was delivered to me, so it looks to them as if order was fulfilled correctly.)
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Old Yesterday, 11:27 AM
 
11,852 posts, read 18,023,136 times
Reputation: 18022
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gungnir View Post
The law doesn't make any statement of intent, just unsolicited deliveries. I know this is hard to grasp, there's an ethical and moral sense of outrage, but the law just defines what's illegal, nothing ethical or moral about the law, it's why DC is full of lawyers.

Yup, it's a shipping error, which makes the shipping company at fault, no?

I mean, forget Billy Doughboy who kept the TV for a second. You have a $3k TV, how idiotic must you be to deliver it to the wrong address, now granted they're not particularly heavy, but wouldn't you think for just one second, about not lugging a seven feet wide 4 feet high box out of your truck if you didn't really need to? I'd double or triple check just to be on the safe side to save me effort. And furthermore, it's only three grand, the bad press alone (and this reflects on the largest online retailer on the planet too) is probably costing them that much in lost business because they can't deliver a TV to the right address, because everyone knows they didn't it's right there in the news.


No law can cover all intent, it's impossible. We still have the supreme court 250 years later arguing back and forth about the US constitution and the intended wording. But we have a legal system that uses not only the word of law, but when it's unclear they consider common law rulings, when that fails they rely on just plain common sense. In this case however we have not only common sense (which apparently is not too common), but the context - written as a consumer protection law for unsolicited goods were payment is requested, not as some sort to "nah nah you shipped me a $10k TV in error, I get to keep it" law.

Once again - it's simply not applicable in this case. If any lawyer tries to use this law to defend his client, given the circumstances of police and shipper asking for the item back, he will be laughed out of court.
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Old Yesterday, 12:43 PM
 
Location: Itinerant
5,817 posts, read 4,001,114 times
Reputation: 4457
Quote:
Originally Posted by ocnjgirl View Post
That is not considered unsolicited, it is not the same, it just isn’t.

“If you are the one who received anything that wasn’t meant for you, you should contact whoever sent it and ask the shipper to collect the package. Generally, parcels that you received but didn’t actually order can be named as “unsolicited goods”. This doesn’t apply to any parcel that was sent to you by mistake”

This would fall under “mistake”, not fraud.
You'd still have to demonstrate the receiver was aware that the delivery was not addressed to them. Without packaging or an open admission that's going to be hard to prove.

Here's a article I dug up, about similar circumstances.

https://www.nj.com/business/2016/12/...by_mistak.html

The fact is FTC rules apply always, how could they not? It would make the whole intent of it meaningless. "Oh sorry your honor, we just sent the recipient a $100 ring by mistake, we weren't really trying to scam them into paying $100 for a $0.25 ring". Not Guilty!

A mistake doesn't provide any means of reclaiming property, suppose I give you a book, it's got an endorsed check in it for $100,000. Do you really think that I could go to the cops and have you arrested for theft if you refuse to return it? No, it's an idiot tax, plain and simple.
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