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Old 04-06-2019, 01:35 PM
 
Location: Upstate NY
33,508 posts, read 9,970,492 times
Reputation: 31712

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jo48 View Post
The Catholic Church allows individual conscience when it comes to fetal cell lines. Look it up.

Then with Philosophical Exemptions no Vegan would object to Bovine Serum and Monkey Cells in vaccines? Tell me there aren't those in vaccines.

And the Catholic Church no longer expects Catholics to abstain from eating meat on Fridays....Well, not exactly.... And there's the rub.

Your flippant statement that the Catholic church "allows individual conscience" with respect to these vaccines makes light of something considered a serious issue by the Vatican. They've in no way endorsed the use of these vaccines, and they're certainly not promoting "Cafeteria Catholics" who pick and choose according to "conscience."

When this was first addressed almost 20 years ago, the expectation was that the medical establishment would move beyond the use of fetal cells. The need for vaccines, and weighing the advantages, is something that was struggled with.

Most importantly, and I don't have to "look it up," the Catholic Church still considers abortion inherently evil. Clearly, just as a Catholic would be allowed to receive these vaccines if no others were available, a Catholic's refusal of these vaccines would also be supported by the church. So don't make it sound as if there should suddenly be no religious exemption for Catholics, where allowed,

 
Old 04-06-2019, 02:42 PM
 
Location: Washington state
5,140 posts, read 2,604,689 times
Reputation: 15397
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jo48 View Post
I remember you saying after CA. eliminated all exceptions in 2015 except medical, that now all the other states would follow suit. Have they???? I know recently NJ tried to eliminate religious exemption but that failed. However, the state did make it more difficult.

Then you still have 17 states which not only have religious exemptions, but also philosophical exemptions as well. If they cannot eliminate the latter, they will eliminate the former? I now live in PA which has both exemptions. Again, the philosophical exemption failed to be eliminated. Of course, anyone over the 18 can refuse any vaccination with a simple NO. Ah, yes, your increased health insurance premium "consequences" for not vaccinating. I have Medicare. Think you can increase my Medicare Premiums and lower my Social Security check for not vaccinating?

You do know what deep feelings come to mind in these Orthodox Jewish Communities when they are told they cannot go around in public unless vaccinated? You may as well say they need to wear armbands stating they are unvaccinated for the public to see.

Thankfully, the rest of the country doesn't have that Dr. Pan on their legislatures.
I wish they would.

From what I understand, there is nothing in any religion that says people can't be vaccinated, so that would make it the exact opposite to your argument. Making the religious vaccinate would tell them they aren't any different from anyone else.

And yes, if they wanted to cut your SS until you had your vaccinations, I'd say go for it. There's the case of the couple who didn't want to vaccinate their son and he ended up in the hospital with tetanus. He was in the hospital for 2 months and ran up an $800,000 bill (and then his parents still only gave him one of three needed tetanus vaccinations!). Guess who gets to pay that? Next time you go to a hospital and get charged $1000 for an aspirin, thank yourself.

Last edited by rodentraiser; 04-06-2019 at 02:50 PM..
 
Old 04-06-2019, 02:45 PM
 
8,969 posts, read 5,579,539 times
Reputation: 9373
The pharmauctical lobby has deep pockets. I hope adults who favor this push to do away with exemptions for kids are 100% up to date with all of their vaccines including flu shots.
 
Old 04-06-2019, 04:19 PM
 
Location: Georgia, USA
22,552 posts, read 27,508,553 times
Reputation: 28168
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jo48 View Post
The Catholic Church allows individual conscience when it comes to fetal cell lines. Look it up.

Then with Philosophical Exemptions no Vegan would object to Bovine Serum and Monkey Cells in vaccines? Tell me there aren't those in vaccines.
No one is forced to vaccinate. Catholics can choose not to vaccinate, but they should not claim it is against their religion because the Church says it is OK.

Vegans can choose not to vaccinate, too. No one will make them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MissTerri View Post
The pharmauctical lobby has deep pockets. I hope adults who favor this push to do away with exemptions for kids are 100% up to date with all of their vaccines including flu shots.
I am.

If the pharmaceutical industry wanted to make more money it would stop making vaccines. There is more money in treating vaccine preventable diseases.
 
Old 04-06-2019, 04:31 PM
 
8,969 posts, read 5,579,539 times
Reputation: 9373
Quote:
Originally Posted by suzy_q2010 View Post
No one is forced to vaccinate. Catholics can choose not to vaccinate, but they should not claim it is against their religion because the Church says it is OK.

Vegans can choose not to vaccinate, too. No one will make them.



I am.

If the pharmaceutical industry wanted to make more money it would stop making vaccines. There is more money in treating vaccine preventable diseases.
I know you have every vaccine but I highly doubt all or even most of the adults pushing for this do.

The pharmaceutical companies can make a lot of money off of vaccines, tamiflu, autoimmune disease, etc. The idea that vaccines lead to a great big healthy population is pretty absurd. Diet, excercise, smoking,drinking etc. are far greater factors. Vaccines are a money maker, especially if everyone is required by law to get them.
 
Old 04-06-2019, 05:56 PM
 
Location: Georgia, USA
22,552 posts, read 27,508,553 times
Reputation: 28168
Quote:
Originally Posted by MissTerri View Post
I know you have every vaccine but I highly doubt all or even most of the adults pushing for this do.

The pharmaceutical companies can make a lot of money off of vaccines, tamiflu, autoimmune disease, etc. The idea that vaccines lead to a great big healthy population is pretty absurd. Diet, excercise, smoking,drinking etc. are far greater factors. Vaccines are a money maker, especially if everyone is required by law to get them.
Hopefully there are adults reading this who will update their own vaccinations.

We no longer have parents commonly burying children because of VPDs, so your claim that vaccines do not improve health is specious.

Vaccines save health care dollars. I posted a link about that earlier, which you seem to have missed.

Vaccines Don't Just Save Lives

"One study in the journal Pediatrics examined the total costs associated with a variety of vaccine-preventable diseases—and thus the savings incurred by vaccinating—and the results were impressive. For example, the cost per hospitalization for an infection with haemophilus influenza type B (Hib), a very serious bacterial illness,with resulting meningitis can cost over $43,000. An estimated 19,000 cases of Hib infection will be prevented over the lifetimes of children born in 2009 because of routine immunization, saving an estimated $1.8 billion in disease-treating costs. When you add in all the other diseases that we routinely vaccinate against in the United States, the estimated savings are staggering."

That does not include costs for parents missing work or lifetime care for someone with brain damage from Hib.

Also, controlling an outbreak can cost $10,000 per day. The Rockland outbreak began in October. There has probably been spent in the ballpark of $1,660,000 already trying to control it.
 
Old 04-06-2019, 06:37 PM
Status: "Spring has Sprung!" (set 19 days ago)
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
86,346 posts, read 101,350,397 times
Reputation: 32752
Quote:
Originally Posted by rodentraiser View Post
I wish they would.

From what I understand, there is nothing in any religion that says people can't be vaccinated, so that would make it the exact opposite to your argument. Making the religious vaccinate would tell them they aren't any different from anyone else.

And yes, if they wanted to cut your SS until you had your vaccinations, I'd say go for it. There's the case of the couple who didn't want to vaccinate their son and he ended up in the hospital with tetanus. He was in the hospital for 2 months and ran up an $800,000 bill (and then his parents still only gave him one of three needed tetanus vaccinations!). Guess who gets to pay that? Next time you go to a hospital and get charged $1000 for an aspirin, thank yourself.
Which is exactly what the Mississippi Supreme Court said in Brown v Stone in 1979, where it upheld the no religious exemptions portion of their vaccine mandates. In fact, they said it would be discriminatory to those without beliefs to give these people exemptions.
https://law.justia.com/cases/mississ...9/51553-0.html
 
Old 04-06-2019, 06:44 PM
Status: "Spring has Sprung!" (set 19 days ago)
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
86,346 posts, read 101,350,397 times
Reputation: 32752
Quote:
Originally Posted by MissTerri View Post
I know you have every vaccine but I highly doubt all or even most of the adults pushing for this do.

The pharmaceutical companies can make a lot of money off of vaccines, tamiflu, autoimmune disease, etc. The idea that vaccines lead to a great big healthy population is pretty absurd. Diet, excercise, smoking,drinking etc. are far greater factors. Vaccines are a money maker, especially if everyone is required by law to get them.
Just look at this, in our state. It's from a few years ago, so the numbers are likely higher today. VPDs cost 1000X more in hospital charges for kids under 19 than treating vaccine side effects. And that's just hospital charges mind you. Has nothing to do with doctor's office charges, pharmaceutical charges, time off work for the parents, transportation costs to the hospital/doctor, etc.
https://www.denverpost.com/2015/02/0...lnesses-costs/
 
Old 04-07-2019, 08:51 AM
 
5,799 posts, read 4,376,891 times
Reputation: 12736
Quote:
Originally Posted by MissTerri View Post
I know you have every vaccine but I highly doubt all or even most of the adults pushing for this do.

The pharmaceutical companies can make a lot of money off of vaccines, tamiflu, autoimmune disease, etc. The idea that vaccines lead to a great big healthy population is pretty absurd. Diet, excercise, smoking,drinking etc. are far greater factors. Vaccines are a money maker, especially if everyone is required by law to get them.
Because some people overeat, are sedentary and smoke we should stop vaccinating? What sense does that make? They’re not taking their health seriously so I shouldn’t care if they die from the measles? Or if they infect an infant with whooping cough?

I have all my vaccines. I’m not at risk. But, there are those who are either too young or immune system compromised who are. IMO, it’s up to those of us who can get vaccines to do that simple thing to protect them. And to insist vaccines are profit drive is absurd. They could make far more money on treating the diseases than preventing them. And you’re supporting them doing so.
 
Old 04-07-2019, 09:03 AM
 
8,969 posts, read 5,579,539 times
Reputation: 9373
Quote:
Originally Posted by UNC4Me View Post
Because some people overeat, are sedentary and smoke we should stop vaccinating? What sense does that make? They’re not taking their health seriously so I shouldn’t care if they die from the measles? Or if they infect an infant with whooping cough?

I have all my vaccines. I’m not at risk. But, there are those who are either too young or immune system compromised who are. IMO, it’s up to those of us who can get vaccines to do that simple thing to protect them. And to insist vaccines are profit drive is absurd. They could make far more money on treating the diseases than preventing them. And you’re supporting them doing so.
Not everyone believes that the best way to take care of one’s health is to inject themselves with a checmical cocktail in an attempt to try to avoid getting sick with one particular illness or another. Many people believe that taking care of one’s immune system (which doesn’t include bombarding it with said checmical cocktail) so that they can fight illness if they get sick is their preferred path to good health. That might mean that they pick and choose which vaccines to get and which to forgo or maybe they choose to get all or none. Maybe they also do things like breastfeed longer then average and stay home with their kids when they are little and their immune systems are not fully formed rather then increasing their risk of things like rotavirus in the daycare setting, etc. Whether you agree or not, people should have the right to make these decisions for themselves.

Vaccines are very much a for profit industry. The more vaccines that get added to the schedule and the more boosters that are needed all add to that profit margin. The more they can eliminate exemptions, the more the profits will rise.

This isn’t so much a debate about vaccines but a debate about choice and the freedom to decide to forgo a medical intervention or not.
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