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Old 04-07-2019, 10:18 AM
 
Location: Georgia, USA
23,203 posts, read 27,994,752 times
Reputation: 28620

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Quote:
Originally Posted by MissTerri View Post
Not everyone believes that the best way to take care of oneís health is to inject themselves with a checmical cocktail in an attempt to try to avoid getting sick with one particular illness or another. Many people believe that taking care of oneís immune system (which doesnít include bombarding it with said checmical cocktail) so that they can fight illness if they get sick is their preferred path to good health. That might mean that they pick and choose which vaccines to get and which to forgo or maybe they choose to get all or none. Maybe they also do things like breastfeed longer then average and stay home with their kids when they are little and their immune systems are not fully formed rather then increasing their risk of things like rotavirus in the daycare setting, etc. Whether you agree or not, people should have the right to make these decisions for themselves.

Vaccines are very much a for profit industry. The more vaccines that get added to the schedule and the more boosters that are needed all add to that profit margin. The more they can eliminate exemptions, the more the profits will rise.

This isnít so much a debate about vaccines but a debate about choice and the freedom to decide to forgo a medical intervention or not.
There is no way to "take care of your immune system" and prevent vaccine preventable infections. That is an alt med myth. Before the measles vaccine virtually everyone got measles. Perfectly healthy people can get flu and die from it. Half the children who die from flu each year have no underlying health issues. So far this season 62 children have died from flu.

Making the decision to not vaccinate based on bad information is not a good idea.

If a new vaccine is added to the schedule that means another potentially lethal disease can be prevented, and when any new vaccine is developed it has to be shown to be cost effective. I have already shown you that vaccines save health care money, so vaccine profits are a nonstarter as a reason not to vaccinate. You can pay for the vaccine and not get sick or you can forgo the vaccine, get sick, and maybe land in an ICU, where it will cost thousands of dollars per day to treat you.

Besides, why shouldn't drug companies profit from vaccines? How is it different from profiting from antibiotics?

 
Old 04-07-2019, 12:28 PM
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
86,836 posts, read 102,160,145 times
Reputation: 32928
Quote:
Originally Posted by MissTerri View Post
Not everyone believes that the best way to take care of oneís health is to inject themselves with a checmical cocktail in an attempt to try to avoid getting sick with one particular illness or another. Many people believe that taking care of oneís immune system (which doesnít include bombarding it with said checmical cocktail) so that they can fight illness if they get sick is their preferred path to good health. That might mean that they pick and choose which vaccines to get and which to forgo or maybe they choose to get all or none. Maybe they also do things like breastfeed longer then average and stay home with their kids when they are little and their immune systems are not fully formed rather then increasing their risk of things like rotavirus in the daycare setting, etc. Whether you agree or not, people should have the right to make these decisions for themselves.

Vaccines are very much a for profit industry. The more vaccines that get added to the schedule and the more boosters that are needed all add to that profit margin. The more they can eliminate exemptions, the more the profits will rise.

This isnít so much a debate about vaccines but a debate about choice and the freedom to decide to forgo a medical intervention or not.
Can the hyperbole. Many of those chemicals are in the foods you eat, the substances you use on your skin, your clothes, etc. Have you looked at the chemicals in an apple? More formaldehyde than in a vaccine. Ditto pears. Polysorbate 80? It's in commercial ICE CREAM.

"Pick and choose". Why? Do you really think the average parent knows more than all the health experts in the world? I have two friends whose kids got Hib meningitis before the vaccine came out. The only risk factor either one of them had was being male. They were oldest and only children, lived in a home of adequate size, with a stay-at-home mom and were breastfed. Didn't go to day care, Caucasian and mixed race non Native American. You never know when it will happen to you/yours.
https://medlineplus.gov/ency/article/000612.htm

Breastfeed? Breast milk contains virtually no antibodies for the diseases we vaccinate against. It mostly contains antibodies to GI infections. Passive Immunity 101: Will Breast Milk Protect My Baby From Getting Sick? | The Scientific Parent


Stay home with their kids when they are little? Not an economic possibility for everyone. Prevaccine, rotavirus was ubiquitous, every kid had a case by age 5. Didn't you say your kid had it? That's OK, day care attendance has nothing to do with it.
https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/pubs/pinkbook/rota.html

Vaccines are profitable (how much depends on the vaccine), but they are not an "industry". They're part of the pharmaceutical industry.

Can this Second Continental Congress talk about "freedom". That's conspiracy theory talk, something most people opposed to vaccines dabble in, as I said in post #77.
https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/ant...racy-theories/
 
Old 04-07-2019, 12:45 PM
 
9,562 posts, read 5,745,723 times
Reputation: 9612
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katarina Witt View Post
Can the hyperbole. Many of those chemicals are in the foods you eat, the substances you use on your skin, your clothes, etc. Have you looked at the chemicals in an apple? More formaldehyde than in a vaccine. Ditto pears. Polysorbate 80? It's in commercial ICE CREAM.
Yes, Kat. I do read food labels. I am aware of the difference between some of the items found in food and in vaccines. I can choose what to put into my body and what not to put in my body.


Quote:
"Pick and choose". Why? Do you really think the average parent knows more than all the health experts in the world? I have two friends whose kids got Hib meningitis before the vaccine came out. The only risk factor either one of them had was being male. They were oldest and only children, lived in a home of adequate size, with a stay-at-home mom and were breastfed. Didn't go to day care, Caucasian and mixed race non Native American. You never know when it will happen to you/yours.
https://medlineplus.gov/ency/article/000612.htm
People can and do have different risk factors depending on the illness and the vaccine and can make individual decisions.

Quote:
Breastfeed? Breast milk contains virtually no antibodies for the diseases we vaccinate against. It mostly contains antibodies to GI infections. Passive Immunity 101: Will Breast Milk Protect My Baby From Getting Sick? | The Scientific Parent
https://kellymom.com/pregnancy/bf-pr...ects_newborns/

Quote:
Stay home with their kids when they are little? Not an economic possibility for everyone. Prevaccine, rotavirus was ubiquitous, every kid had a case by age 5. Didn't you say your kid had it? That's OK, day care attendance has nothing to do with it.
https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/pubs/pinkbook/rota.html
Didn’t you jump on the “everyone can homeschool bandwagon”? Breastfeeding and not being in daycare greatly reduces risks involved in rotavirus infection. Knowing individual risks allows people to make educated decisions. Yes, my VACCINATED baby had rotavirus. No complications though and she was breastfeeding at the time which certainly helped her not to become dehydrated.

Quote:
Can this Second Continental Congress talk about "freedom". That's conspiracy theory talk, something most people opposed to vaccines dabble in, as I said in post #77.
https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/ant...racy-theories/
You know, tellling people to “can it” is really obnoxious and rude. I don’t know what you’re talking about with the “Second Continental of Congress talk about freedom” statement. Wishing to maintain choice is not conspiracy theory talk?

Last edited by MissTerri; 04-07-2019 at 01:17 PM..
 
Old 04-07-2019, 01:11 PM
 
6,268 posts, read 3,531,236 times
Reputation: 7166
Stay home with their kids when they are little? Not an economic possibility for everyone. Prevaccine, rotavirus was ubiquitous, every kid had a case by age 5. Didn't you say your kid had it? That's OK, day care attendance has nothing to do with it.

Well, you better get to work on a Norovirus (stomach flu) vaccine because that rotovirus vaccine is not going to prevent kids under 5 from catching that. Symptoms exactly the same. Maybe better vaccinate their parents as well!!!

Edit: I worked public schools with a lot of kids who had that "stomach flu". Fine one minute, next minute vomiting all over. Cannot blame parents for that when they weren't sick when home.
 
Old 04-07-2019, 01:32 PM
 
6,268 posts, read 3,531,236 times
Reputation: 7166
Quote:
Originally Posted by suzy_q2010 View Post
There is no way to "take care of your immune system" and prevent vaccine preventable infections. That is an alt med myth. Before the measles vaccine virtually everyone got measles. Perfectly healthy people can get flu and die from it. Half the children who die from flu each year have no underlying health issues. So far this season 62 children have died from flu.

Making the decision to not vaccinate based on bad information is not a good idea.

If a new vaccine is added to the schedule that means another potentially lethal disease can be prevented, and when any new vaccine is developed it has to be shown to be cost effective. I have already shown you that vaccines save health care money, so vaccine profits are a nonstarter as a reason not to vaccinate. You can pay for the vaccine and not get sick or you can forgo the vaccine, get sick, and maybe land in an ICU, where it will cost thousands of dollars per day to treat you.

Besides, why shouldn't drug companies profit from vaccines? How is it different from profiting from antibiotics?
Some of us get what profits are made from all preventative medicine; from flu shots to mammograms. Treating sick people was not lucrative enough so now we have "wellness" doctor visits. A LOT of $$$$ is spent on this. "If we can prevent even ONE illness or death it is worth it". Then people wonder why their premiums are sky high? Test thousands to prevent ONE illness? This stuff ain't free. You don't pay, but doctors aren't getting paid for all this?

Why shouldn't drug companies profit from opioid drug sales as well?????? Can't have people in PAIN either!!!!
 
Old 04-07-2019, 01:52 PM
 
6,268 posts, read 3,531,236 times
Reputation: 7166
Miss Terri, my husband's niece is a strict Vegan. She reads all labels to make sure there are no animal products. In fact she will not wear clothing from an animal, wool included.

If she ever read the ingredients in vaccines, available from CDC's website, she would be horrified. Bovine serum? Monkey Cells? Grown in Egg or Mosquito culture? Even cow's milk would send her into a frenzy.

This gets into a Philosophical Exemption. She has the right to not eat or wear animal products, but so what if we inject you with animal products? I believe this is Celeb Vegan Kat Von D's objections as well.

Edit: Niece is 50 and has no children of her own. Will these medical professionals on here deny there are no animal products in vaccines? CDC says so.

Last edited by Jo48; 04-07-2019 at 02:01 PM..
 
Old 04-07-2019, 02:39 PM
 
Location: Georgia, USA
23,203 posts, read 27,994,752 times
Reputation: 28620
Quote:
Originally Posted by MissTerri View Post
Yes, Kat. I do read food labels. I am aware of the difference between some of the items found in food and in vaccines. I can choose what to put into my body and what not to put in my body.

People can and do have different risk factors depending on the illness and the vaccine and can make individual decisions.

https://kellymom.com/pregnancy/bf-pr...ects_newborns/
The thing is that those things in vaccines that you do not want to put in your body are things you are putting in your body anyway.

People with no risk factors other than being a living human still get vaccine preventable diseases. The only way to avoid them would be to live in total isolation.

The effect of breast feeding only happens as long as breast feeding continues. It is not permanent. It may reduce the risk of getting a VPD but does not provide the degree of protection that vaccination does, and the main protection is for GI diseases, not airborne ones like measles.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Jo48 View Post
Stay home with their kids when they are little? Not an economic possibility for everyone. Prevaccine, rotavirus was ubiquitous, every kid had a case by age 5. Didn't you say your kid had it? That's OK, day care attendance has nothing to do with it.

Well, you better get to work on a Norovirus (stomach flu) vaccine because that rotovirus vaccine is not going to prevent kids under 5 from catching that. Symptoms exactly the same. Maybe better vaccinate their parents as well!!!

Edit: I worked public schools with a lot of kids who had that "stomach flu". Fine one minute, next minute vomiting all over. Cannot blame parents for that when they weren't sick when home.
What happens when a child gets sick? Someone has to stay home with him.

Why would anyone expect the rotavirus vaccine to prevent norovirus? The only thing they have in common is they are both viruses.

There are already several candidate versions of norovirus vaccines in various phases of testing.
 
Old 04-07-2019, 02:43 PM
 
Location: colorado springs, CO
4,814 posts, read 2,217,449 times
Reputation: 16281
Quote:
Originally Posted by suzy_q2010 View Post
"Officials in Rockland County, New York, have declared a countywide State of Emergency after a measles outbreak thatís infected at least 151 people since October.

The declaration will bar unvaccinated children from going out to public places until they receive the vaccination against measles or the declaration expires after 30 days, the New York Times and WPIX-TV reported."

https://www.wpbf.com/article/new-yor...break/26949430

"A federal judge this month denied a request from parents to let 44 unvaccinated children return to the Waldorf School in Rockland County."
Oh, FFS.

Several of these recent "outbreaks" began with one unimmunized kid who traveled internationally. Why not just require current immunizations for re-entry?

Of course, then, there won't be many cases to inspire all the compulsory legislation. That would never do.
 
Old 04-07-2019, 02:52 PM
 
Location: Georgia, USA
23,203 posts, read 27,994,752 times
Reputation: 28620
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jo48 View Post
Some of us get what profits are made from all preventative medicine; from flu shots to mammograms. Treating sick people was not lucrative enough so now we have "wellness" doctor visits. A LOT of $$$$ is spent on this. "If we can prevent even ONE illness or death it is worth it". Then people wonder why their premiums are sky high? Test thousands to prevent ONE illness? This stuff ain't free. You don't pay, but doctors aren't getting paid for all this?

Why shouldn't drug companies profit from opioid drug sales as well?????? Can't have people in PAIN either!!!!
The reason preventive procedures exist is they save money. If they did not they would not be offered. Insurance companies would certainly not pay for them. It is a lot cheaper to remove a colon polyp than to treat the cancer it would become if not treated.

I take it you think no one should take anything for pain. Does that include a child who has extensive burns? Perhaps someone in an automobile accident who has multiple fractures and internal injuries requiring multiple surgical procedures? The latter happened to a child in my community recently. Sorry, kid, no pain meds for you? Just tough it out?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jo48 View Post
Miss Terri, my husband's niece is a strict Vegan. She reads all labels to make sure there are no animal products. In fact she will not wear clothing from an animal, wool included.

If she ever read the ingredients in vaccines, available from CDC's website, she would be horrified. Bovine serum? Monkey Cells? Grown in Egg or Mosquito culture? Even cow's milk would send her into a frenzy.

This gets into a Philosophical Exemption. She has the right to not eat or wear animal products, but so what if we inject you with animal products? I believe this is Celeb Vegan Kat Von D's objections as well.

Edit: Niece is 50 and has no children of her own. Will these medical professionals on here deny there are no animal products in vaccines? CDC says so.
Some vegans vaccinate. Some do not. Like any philosophical objection the choice is available. There may be consequences, though.

There are no monkey cells in vaccines. They are used to produce some vaccines but are not in the final product.
 
Old 04-07-2019, 02:53 PM
 
Location: Georgia, USA
23,203 posts, read 27,994,752 times
Reputation: 28620
Quote:
Originally Posted by coschristi View Post
Oh, FFS.

Several of these recent "outbreaks" began with one unimmunized kid who traveled internationally. Why not just require current immunizations for re-entry?

Of course, then, there won't be many cases to inspire all the compulsory legislation. That would never do.
Amazing! We agree on something. I have suggested that very thing in several vaccine threads.
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