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Old 04-08-2019, 06:58 AM
 
8,969 posts, read 5,579,539 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rodentraiser View Post
What so many are forgetting is that lack of vaccinations, like smoking and drunk driving, is a public health risk. As in, I wouldn't care one iota what happens to people who smoke, drive drunk, or don't vaccinate if it only affected them. Unfortunately, that's not the case. For all you people who don't want to vaccinate your kids, why don't you want to use the same logic on people who drink? After all, it's their bodies and their livers they're ruining. Why should the government or the state have any say in restricting the amount of alcohol people put in their bodies and what they do after they're drunk?

But the same people who demand to have the right not to vaccinate would have a fit if we didn't attempt to stop drunk drivers from driving by arresting them. What is the disconnect in the minds of people who refuse to allow their child to be vaccinated and don't care if that unvaccinated child endangers others when he goes out into public but then turn around and say it's perfectly all right to arrest drunk drivers who likewise endanger others when they go out and drive drunk in public?

Thereís no comparison between allowing people to drive drunk and allowing people to make healthcare decisions for themselves with the help of their doctor rather then the government.

 
Old 04-08-2019, 06:59 AM
 
Location: 912 feet above sea level
2,230 posts, read 808,520 times
Reputation: 12208
And yet more proud graduates (B.S. in BS) from the University of Jenny McCarthy foisting diseases on their children...

Quote:
Maryland health officials said Friday that the state has confirmed a case of measles, a highly contagious viral infection that has been spreading in several other states in numbers not seen in decades.

This is the first official case reported this year by the Maryland Department of Health, though there have been 387 cases confirmed in 15 other states through the end of March, according to U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. Thatís the second-highest number of cases reported nationwide since 2000.
https://www.carrollcountytimes.com/b...405-story.html
 
Old 04-08-2019, 07:10 AM
 
8,969 posts, read 5,579,539 times
Reputation: 9373
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hulsker 1856 View Post
And yet more proud graduates (B.S. in BS) from the University of Jenny McCarthy foisting diseases on their children...


https://www.carrollcountytimes.com/b...405-story.html
According to the CDC, Maryland has a 92.4% vaccination rate for measles. Did they say that the person who has measles in the state was unvaccinated or where they got it from? One case is not considered an outbreak.
 
Old 04-08-2019, 07:27 AM
 
5,799 posts, read 4,376,891 times
Reputation: 12736
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hulsker 1856 View Post
And yet more proud graduates (B.S. in BS) from the University of Jenny McCarthy foisting diseases on their children...


https://www.carrollcountytimes.com/b...405-story.html
Agreed. There’s such a disconnect with some folks. My grandparents lost 2 children to disease as did many prior to vaccines. My parents were grateful for the vaccines available to keep me safe and I was also grateful I didn’t have to fear polio or measles or whooping cough would kill my kids. My daughter will vaccinate her child when the time comes, but she will have to worry about him because of people who don’t care enough about the most vulnerable among us to get vaccinated.

It’s ridiculous my daughter, in 2019, will have the same fears for her children my grandmother had in 1919.
 
Old 04-08-2019, 08:15 AM
Status: "Spring has Sprung!" (set 19 days ago)
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
86,346 posts, read 101,350,397 times
Reputation: 32752
Quote:
Originally Posted by MissTerri View Post
Thereís no comparison between allowing people to drive drunk and allowing people to make healthcare decisions for themselves with the help of their doctor rather then the government.
Yes, there is a comparison. It's called "protecting the public".

Quote:
Originally Posted by MissTerri View Post
According to the CDC, Maryland has a 92.4% vaccination rate for measles. Did they say that the person who has measles in the state was unvaccinated or where they got it from? One case is not considered an outbreak.
As you know, the figure for herd immunity for measles is 95%, so Maryland is at risk.
 
Old 04-08-2019, 08:24 AM
 
8,969 posts, read 5,579,539 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Katarina Witt View Post
Yes, there is a comparison. It's called "protecting the public".
Actually, the numbers I found for measles are between 90% and 95% according to the herd immunity theory.

You can’t force people to put substances into heir body against their will so that you can feel safe. You can’t force people to comply with your preferred view of health. You do what you can to protect yourself and leave others free to do what works for them.



Quote:
As you know, the figure for herd immunity for measles is 95%, so Maryland is at risk.
Wasn’t the number at least that that high in the outbreak in Quebec where a twice vaccinated adult brought measles back from a trip overseas and then infected a highly vaccinated population?

Last edited by MissTerri; 04-08-2019 at 08:34 AM..
 
Old 04-08-2019, 08:37 AM
 
5,799 posts, read 4,376,891 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MissTerri View Post
You canít force people to put substances into heir body against their will so that you can feel safe. You canít force people to comply with your preferred view of health. You do what you can to protect yourself and leave others free to do what works for them.
What happens when those choices adversely effect others? Iím not going to get measles because Iíve been vaccinated. But, my grandson could until heís had the full range of vaccines. If an unvaccinated person passes measles to him and he dies or ends up with an untreatable complication, youíre OK with it as long as YOU get to choose for yourself. What you fail, time and time again to grasp is youíre not choosing just for YOU, youíre choosing for those who canít or havenít yet been vaccinated and youíre choosing to put them at risk.

No one is going to force you to vaccinate, but Iím 100% OK with you or your unvaccinated kids being banned from daycare, public school and any other place young kids gather. You can do as you wish, but your right to do so doesnít mean you have the right to endanger others with your choice.
 
Old 04-08-2019, 08:43 AM
 
8,969 posts, read 5,579,539 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UNC4Me View Post
What happens when those choices adversely effect others? I’m not going to get measles because I’ve been vaccinated. But, my grandson could until he’s had the full range of vaccines. If an unvaccinated person passes measles to him and he dies or ends up with an untreatable complication, you’re OK with it as long as YOU get to choose for yourself. What you fail, time and time again to grasp is you’re not choosing just for YOU, you’re choosing for those who can’t or haven’t yet been vaccinated and you’re choosing to put them at risk.

No one is going to force you to vaccinate, but I’m 100% OK with you or your unvaccinated kids being banned from daycare, public school and any other place young kids gather. You can do as you wish, but your right to do so doesn’t mean you have the right to endanger others with your choice.
Your choice also adversely effects others. People are definitely trying to force vaccination upon everyone. Yourself included. You’ll never get 100% voluntary compliance for anything really.

Your grandson should be protected via maternal antibodies up until he’s old enough to be vaccinated. His odds of dying from measles are extremely low. His odds of even catching measles are low. It’s unrealistic for you to expect everyone to do as you do. Try not to get hysterical. The vaccine also has risks. Which is why you can’t demand that everyone comply, or else.
 
Old 04-08-2019, 08:51 AM
 
5,799 posts, read 4,376,891 times
Reputation: 12736
Quote:
Originally Posted by MissTerri View Post
Your choice also adversely effects others. People are definitely trying to force vaccination upon everyone. Yourself included.

Your grandson should be protected via maternal antibodies up until he’s old enough to be vaccinated. His odds of dying from measles are extremely low. It’s unrealistic for you to expect everyone to do as you do. Try not to get hysterical. The vaccine also has risks. Which is why you can’t demand that everyone comply, or else.
Maternal antibodies from breastfeeding (as has been explained to you repeatedly) only cover things like stomach flu. Babies can have some passive immunity to measles, but it typically disappears before they get their first MMR vaccine at 1 year. Extremely low is cold comfort to a parent who has lost a child to an easily preventable disease.

Once again, no one is forcing you to vaccinate. However, you should have to bear the consequences of your choices. No daycare. No public school. No access to anywhere young kids gather. No re-entry to the US after foreign travel. You can choose to risk the health of yourself, your kids and grandkids, but you don’t have the right to risk other people’s health. Freedom isn’t free.
 
Old 04-08-2019, 08:55 AM
Status: "Spring has Sprung!" (set 19 days ago)
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
86,346 posts, read 101,350,397 times
Reputation: 32752
Quote:
Originally Posted by MissTerri View Post
Actually, the numbers I found for measles are between 90% and 95% according to the herd immunity theory.

You can’t force people to put substances into heir body against their will so that you can feel safe. You can’t force people to comply with your preferred view of health. You do what you can to protect yourself and leave others free to do what works for them.



Wasn’t the number at least that that high in the outbreak in Quebec where a twice vaccinated adult brought measles back from a trip overseas and then infected a highly vaccinated population?
The AAP says "approximately" 95%. You can probably find sources with lower numbers; I'd be careful about who's saying it. As you have posted nothing in this regard, we'll take that for what it's worth.
https://www.aappublications.org/content/36/5/14.1

"Leave others free to do what works for them", e.g. hide in the herd.

I don't know what the herd immunity level was in that Quebec outbreak. It's your claim, your responsibility to support. Be sure to give the percentage of kids at the school that actually got measles too. Your statement that there was a "highly vaccinated population" means nothing if we don't know what percent of people actually got measles.

ETA: https://www.contagionlive.com/news/s...-united-states (2017)
"The researchers found that just a 5% drop in MMR vaccine coverage in the United States would result in 3 times more cases of measles nationally, each year, for children aged 2 to 11 years. The decline in vaccination would also add $2.1 million in public sector costs annually, or $20,000 per additional case; those estimates don’t include unvaccinated infants, adolescents, and adults. . . “We focused on measles as a case example of the effects of declining vaccine coverage because it is highly infectious,” said the study’s lead author Nathan Lo, MD, PhD, in a recent press release from Stanford. “It’s likely to be the first infectious disease causing outbreaks if vaccination declines.”"
This guy must have a ouija board. Look at Europe in 2018!

Last edited by Katarina Witt; 04-08-2019 at 09:04 AM..
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