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Old 04-09-2019, 09:08 AM
 
5,799 posts, read 4,376,891 times
Reputation: 12736

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Quote:
Originally Posted by MissTerri View Post
Stop lying. California is just one example of a state where the government is trying to limit the medical conditions of which a person can get a medical exemption for. They are interfering with the doctor patient relationship. This is not all about “scam businesses”.
They’re interfering with the questionable ethics of some doctors. Please tell me why a psychiatrist who runs an anti-aging clinic is handing out medical exemptions to young kids like lollipops. I’m pretty sure 5 year olds aren’t his patients.


“Nearly three years ago, with infectious disease rates ticking up, California enacted a fiercely contested law barring parents from citing personal or religious beliefs to avoid vaccinating their children. Children could be exempted only on medical grounds, if the shots were harmful to health.

Yet today, many of the schools that had the highest rates of unvaccinated students before the new measure continue to hold that alarming distinction. That’s because parents have found end runs around the new law requiring vaccinations. And they have done so, often, with the cooperation of doctors — some not even pediatricians. One prolific exemption provider is a psychiatrist who runs an anti-aging clinic.

Doctors in California have broad authority to grant medical exemptions to vaccination, and to decide the grounds for doing so. Some are wielding that power liberally and sometimes for cash: signing dozens — even hundreds — of exemptions for children in far-off communities.”

https://www.google.com/amp/s/abcnews...%3fid=62233484

 
Old 04-09-2019, 09:12 AM
Status: "Spring has Sprung!" (set 19 days ago)
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
86,346 posts, read 101,350,397 times
Reputation: 32752
Quote:
Originally Posted by MissTerri View Post
Not true. Youíre ignoring what happened in Quebec in 2011.
Document. Remember, we're talking about transmission, not incidence.
 
Old 04-09-2019, 10:38 AM
 
6,005 posts, read 3,439,489 times
Reputation: 7046
Ok, let's put deadly measles in perspective here. How many have DIED from these outbreaks? ZERO. How many children from died from (complications) of the flu last year? 186. According to your CDC 80,000 died in the US last year by their "estimates". Worried about Measles????? Where is your legislation demanding that every man, woman, and child being vaccinated with a Flu shot every year? Keep unvaccinated children (?)out of school and in society for not being "compliant" with their Flu vaccinations. Forget ADULTS for this one. I suppose you medical professionals haven't scared enough people as far as Flu vaccination, as you have with Measles, Mumps, Ruebella, or Chicken Pox. Far too many people have experience the flu, so you cannot pull the wool over their eyes.

Oh, and then there is is HPV! Better mandate that for children as well. Increase vaccination rates? Let's now say that all adults under 45 need that as well too because rates are far to low and Big Pharms are losing $$$$. Add Shingles Vax to that one as well. LOWER the age to 50 for that. Profits!!!!
 
Old 04-09-2019, 10:48 AM
 
Location: A tropical island
4,329 posts, read 4,296,764 times
Reputation: 10812
Quote:
Originally Posted by MissTerri View Post
Better ban cars so that you donít get killed in a car crash or as a pedestrian. You donít drive do you? If so youíre putting others in grave danger. hope you donít swim either. Thatís dangerous.

Iím not saying that people should or should not vaccinate for measles. I am saying that there should always be choice. Pointing out what mass vaccination has done to the protection the most vulnerable via maternal antibodies and antibodies in breastmilk is to point out the reality, not to dissuade or encourage people to get vaccinated. Itís the truth.

Worldwide deaths are quite different from deaths in a first world country. Just another thing you may want to educate yourself about. Kind of weird that you seem to be ignoring all of the information in the article in favor of the authorís opinion.
Quote:
Originally Posted by kayanne View Post
The benefits of maternal antibodies (from having experienced the disease) is only helpful if the person survives the disease. My mother would have had another brother and sister, but they both died in childhood the same week of diptheria.

Can you even imagine going back to the days where it was common to have multiple children die?!?
Really, think about that.
Miss Terri, I'll assume my question to you (reposted and bolded above) slipped through the cracks. I am reposting because to me this is exactly what it all comes down to. Note, that conversation above was in regard to maternal antibodies, but my question applies to the entire anti-vax mindset. Please help me understand, because I am truly baffled as to how anyone can not be terrified of returning to the days when families, including my grandparents, buried multiple children due to VPD.

Do you simply disbelieve that could ever happen again? Do you think the decrease of childhood deaths is more related to hygiene than to vaccines? (I certainly do not). Does individual freedom trump the right of children to have the best shot of surviving? Does the past not frighten you? This topic could expand into every aspect of healthcare for children, like how do you deal with parents who only believe in prayer for treating any disease?

I'm being completely serious.
 
Old 04-09-2019, 10:50 AM
 
12,253 posts, read 10,180,943 times
Reputation: 16902
Breaking out of Brooklyn:

NYC declares health emergency over measles outbreak - Story | WNYW

Quote:
Mayor Bill de Blasio delcared a public health emergency Tuesday in the wake of the rising number of measles cases centered in Williamsburg's Orthodox Jewsish community.

More than 250 people have come down with measles since September.

The emergency requires vaccinations for people exposed to the virus and applies only to those who live in four ZIP codes in Williamsburg. Children over six months old in the zone in question are also required to be vaccinated.
 
Old 04-09-2019, 10:56 AM
 
5,799 posts, read 4,376,891 times
Reputation: 12736
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jo48 View Post
Ok, let's put deadly measles in perspective here. How many have DIED from these outbreaks? ZERO. How many children from died from (complications) of the flu last year? 186. According to your CDC 80,000 died in the US last year by their "estimates". Worried about Measles????? Where is your legislation demanding that every man, woman, and child being vaccinated with a Flu shot every year? Keep unvaccinated children (?)out of school and in society for not being "compliant" with their Flu vaccinations. Forget ADULTS for this one. I suppose you medical professionals haven't scared enough people as far as Flu vaccination, as you have with Measles, Mumps, Ruebella, or Chicken Pox. Far too many people have experience the flu, so you cannot pull the wool over their eyes.

Oh, and then there is is HPV! Better mandate that for children as well. Increase vaccination rates? Let's now say that all adults under 45 need that as well too because rates are far to low and Big Pharms are losing $$$$. Add Shingles Vax to that one as well. LOWER the age to 50 for that. Profits!!!!
Yes, let’s put deadly measles in perspective.

https://www.who.int/news-room/detail...ation-coverage

From the linked WHO article:

Because of gaps in vaccination coverage, measles outbreaks occurred in all regions, while there were an estimated 110 000 deaths related to the disease

I’m thinking the relatives of the 110 THOUSAND people who died aren’t as unconcerned as you are about measles. Nor are the one who survive but are permanently impacted. If people here continue to decline vaccines, deaths in the US will happen. It’s just a matter of time. That’s why it’s important for states to end exemptions other than for medical conditions where vaccines are contra indicated.

And yes, if I ran the world kids would have to get a flu shot unless medically exempt. It saves lives. Even though it doesn’t prevent 100% of flu cases, it lessens the complications from flu that sometimes end in death.

Last edited by UNC4Me; 04-09-2019 at 11:11 AM..
 
Old 04-09-2019, 10:58 AM
 
8,969 posts, read 5,579,539 times
Reputation: 9373
Quote:
Originally Posted by kayanne View Post
Miss Terri, I'll assume my question to you (reposted and bolded above) slipped through the cracks. I am reposting because to me this is exactly what it all comes down to. Note, that conversation above was in regard to maternal antibodies, but my question applies to the entire anti-vax mindset. Please help me understand, because I am truly baffled as to how anyone can not be terrified of returning to the days when families, including my grandparents, buried multiple children due to VPD.

Do you simply disbelieve that could ever happen again? Do you think the decrease of childhood deaths is more related to hygiene than to vaccines? (I certainly do not). Does individual freedom trump the right of children to have the best shot of surviving? Does the past not frighten you? This topic could expand into every aspect of healthcare for children, like how do you deal with parents who only believe in prayer for treating any disease?

I'm being completely serious.
I’m not anti-vax ( I know people like to call me that but I’m not against vaccines) so I can’t speak to the anti-vax mindset. I am pro choice. I think when talking about deaths from disease that occurred 80 to 100 years ago, it’s good to look at disease rates and deaths rates over time. Did the diphtheria death rate fall before the vaccine was introduced? There are many things to consider when making medical decisions. Again, I’m not anti-vaccine. I am for informed consent and choice free from coercion.

Last edited by MissTerri; 04-09-2019 at 11:06 AM..
 
Old 04-09-2019, 11:00 AM
 
6,005 posts, read 3,439,489 times
Reputation: 7046
Quote:
Originally Posted by JerseyGirl415 View Post
Yes, I have read that NYC wants to shut down these schools for failure to vaccinate. My SIL is a NYC Public School Teacher All I can say to you is that they will face religious discrimination lawsuits if they try this. Not quite in the same vein as Waldorf Schools.

So how did your NJ state legislation with banning religious exemptions go? I am a Native New Yorker, and retired TA, whose children and grandchildren still live in NYS so I keep up with what goes on there.
 
Old 04-09-2019, 11:02 AM
 
8,969 posts, read 5,579,539 times
Reputation: 9373
Quote:
Originally Posted by JerseyGirl415 View Post

Forced vaccinations. Interesting. Thanks for sharing.
 
Old 04-09-2019, 11:05 AM
 
12,253 posts, read 10,180,943 times
Reputation: 16902
Quote:
Originally Posted by kayanne View Post
Miss Terri, I'll assume my question to you (reposted and bolded above) slipped through the cracks. I am reposting because to me this is exactly what it all comes down to. Note, that conversation above was in regard to maternal antibodies, but my question applies to the entire anti-vax mindset. Please help me understand, because I am truly baffled as to how anyone can not be terrified of returning to the days when families, including my grandparents, buried multiple children due to VPD.

Do you simply disbelieve that could ever happen again? Do you think the decrease of childhood deaths is more related to hygiene than to vaccines? (I certainly do not). Does individual freedom trump the right of children to have the best shot of surviving? Does the past not frighten you? This topic could expand into every aspect of healthcare for children, like how do you deal with parents who only believe in prayer for treating any disease?

I'm being completely serious.
Also curious, as your post made me question it, how do people who are against vaccines feel about the potential development of a vaccine for a disease like ebola that wreaked havoc on parts of west Africa only a few years ago, and spread to the US and some other countries? Better hygiene/sanitation and education are needed in often affected areas in Africa, but that process seems to be unfortunately very slow, and 11,000 died of ebola a few years ago, with a total of about 28,000 cases. A vaccine has been in the works and iirc, may have been administered to at least some people at the time, experimentally? Or maybe I'm thinking of the treatment? Either way, would people support administering vaccines, assuming they are deemed safe, for ebola to prevent the spread of such a horrible disease, including to outside countries, and to prevent as many deaths as occurred in the last major outbreak?

Because ebola is a very frightening disease. Yes, outcomes are the best when conditions are sanitary and people understand how to protect themselves, and when proper care is administered asap, but it can get out of control in areas where this stuff is not common or easily available. Do we just let people die and the disease run to infect tens of thousands or do we vaccinate large portions of the population in affected areas, and others at risk like doctors and other workers for Doctors Without Borders? If someone who is against vaccines were somehow forced to go to an ebola infected area in west Africa, like Monrovia, Liberia in 2015, and live normally amongst the people as ebola spread in the city, would you have taken a vaccine against ebola if it were available or would you have risked your life and health, and risked being treated in an ebola treatment center there if you got sick?

I think for many in the US, the idea of losing so many people to a disease a vaccine may be able to prevent, and has been able to prevent, is unfathomable. It has been a very long time, longer than ago people's lifetimes today, since we had major outbreaks of any illness that has killed or infected a scary number of people (think 1918 flu). It's been a long time since it was unfortunately rather common for families to lose at least one child to an illness. We have been protected by vaccines for so long that people no longer know what it's like to not be. Complacency is never a good idea. And then of course there are people who think they know better than experts who devote their careers to studying and creating vaccines. I don't blindly trust everyone telling me to do something, but the science relating to vaccines is not on the anti-vaxxers' side. They spread misinformation, stupidity, and diseases when an outbreak finally occurs because vaccine rates get low enough.

If there is to be "choice" where people think they know better than experts, they should at least take it upon themselves to be extra cautious and keep in mind that their unvaccinated status and that of their children can truly harm others.
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