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Old 04-10-2019, 06:26 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Katarina Witt View Post
No one, I mean NO ONE, is criticizing or "attacking" people who have valid medical exemptions for not vaccinating. That's just muddying the waters of this issue.
I never said we had a medical exemption. We don't. It was a doctor/patient decision.

 
Old 04-10-2019, 06:46 AM
 
3,860 posts, read 2,713,777 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UNC4Me View Post
Not one poster has said vaccinations should be forced or that a child like your granddaughter should be vaccinated having had a medical issue that then makes vaccines a risk for her. I support choice as well, but if someone chooses not to vaccinate for a non medical reason, I also support states in banning those kids from daycare, K-12 and college. They’re not forced, but they do have to accept the consequences of that choice.

You, of all people, should be adamantly for vaccination of people who have no medical issue that precludes it. The herd immunity we share with a largely vaccinated population protects people specifically like your granddaughter. She can’t get vaccinated so it’s incumbent on the rest of us to do so so she enjoys as much protection from disease as we can give her.
She doesn't have a medical issue, she had a bad reaction to the vaccine, she has always been extremely healthy and is now in her 30's. Her doctors and schools never said she should be banned from anything or we should be angry and want others to vaccinate to protect her. That thought has never crossed my mind.

I'm just saying attitudes have changed.
 
Old 04-10-2019, 06:51 AM
 
6,620 posts, read 4,565,370 times
Reputation: 13253
Quote:
Originally Posted by KaraG View Post
I never said we had a medical exemption. We don't. It was a doctor/patient decision.
IIRC, your granddaughter is now an adult and past the age where exemptions matter. I’m basing this on you mentioning she was medication sensitive and had a bad reaction to birth control pills.

Back when the decision to not vaccinate her, formal medical exemptions may not have been required in your state. If her situation happened today, her doctor would provide her with a medical exemption due to her reaction to the vaccine(s) she did receive.
 
Old 04-10-2019, 06:52 AM
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
86,883 posts, read 102,281,764 times
Reputation: 32946
Quote:
Originally Posted by KaraG View Post
I never said we had a medical exemption. We don't. It was a doctor/patient decision.
That's called a medical exemption. Doctors were given wide latitude in California for exemptions. Then the charlatans jumped in.
 
Old 04-10-2019, 06:57 AM
 
6,620 posts, read 4,565,370 times
Reputation: 13253
Quote:
Originally Posted by KaraG View Post
She doesn't have a medical issue, she had a bad reaction to the vaccine, she has always been extremely healthy and is now in her 30's. Her doctors and schools never said she should be banned from anything or we should be angry and want others to vaccinate to protect her. That thought has never crossed my mind.

I'm just saying attitudes have changed.
The thought didn’t cross your mind because it didn’t have to. People vaccinated their kids unless there was a medical reason not to. Herd immunity provided her protection. Now there are people who don’t vaccinate for reasons based on poor understanding of the safety of vaccines or because they just don’t want to. I truly hope your granddaughter doesn’t pass her sensitivity to vaccines to any children she may have. If she does, she will have to worry about whether dwindling vaccination rates will destroy our herd immunity removing the protection she enjoyed and putting her child at risk.
 
Old 04-10-2019, 07:03 AM
 
9,568 posts, read 5,764,693 times
Reputation: 9636
Quote:
Originally Posted by UNC4Me View Post
IIRC, your granddaughter is now an adult and past the age where exemptions matter. I’m basing this on you mentioning she was medication sensitive and had a bad reaction to birth control pills.

Back when the decision to not vaccinate her, formal medical exemptions may not have been required in your state. If her situation happened today, her doctor would provide her with a medical exemption due to her reaction to the vaccine(s) she did receive.
You don’t know if she would qualify for a medical exemption in any state who decides to go with the narrow interpretation of contraindications via the ACIP guidelines which are being proposed in at least some states. She may not and you’d be fine with her daughter missing out on the opportunity to go to college due to that. This is not always as cut and dry as people think. People are not all perfect clones of one another and some people will react badly to a vaccine, food or other medication yet others will be 100% fine. There are also risks to getting sick. There is truth to both sides. I hate how polarizing this has gotten. Let people decide with their doctors.
 
Old 04-10-2019, 07:15 AM
 
6,620 posts, read 4,565,370 times
Reputation: 13253
Quote:
Originally Posted by MissTerri View Post
You don’t know if she would qualify for a medical exemption in any state who decides to go with the narrow interpretation of contraindications via the ACIP guidelines which are being proposed in at least some states. She may not and you’d be fine with her daughter missing out on the opportunity to go to college due to that. This is not always as cut and dry as people think. People are not all perfect clones of one another and some people will react badly to a vaccine, food or other medication yet others will be 100% fine. There are also risks to getting sick. There is truth to both sides. I hate how polarizing this has gotten. Let people decide with their doctors.
The system worked as designed for the posters granddaughter. Vaccines were given. Reaction occurred. Doctor and parents together determined she shouldn’t get anymore.

You think any parent should be able to opt out for any reason without consequences. I agree they should be able to opt out, but without a medically valid reason they should be responsible for the consequences of that decision. If that means their kid can’t go to daycare or public school or college, so be it.

There are laws that require mandatory vaccinations to participate in those things. Just like there are laws for inclusion in a million other things in our society. Don’t want to apply for a passport? Ok, but no overseas travel. Don’t want to get a drivers license or car insurance? Ok, but no driving for you. Don’t want to pay your taxes? Ok, but don’t be surprised when the IRS starts garnishing your wages.

Choices have consequences. No one should be forced to vaccinate, but neither should they expect the rest of the world to roll over and meekly accept the risk associated with their decision.

Last edited by UNC4Me; 04-10-2019 at 07:24 AM..
 
Old 04-10-2019, 07:31 AM
 
9,568 posts, read 5,764,693 times
Reputation: 9636
Quote:
Originally Posted by UNC4Me View Post
The system worked as designed for the posters granddaughter. Vaccines were given. Reaction occurred. Doctor and parents together determined she shouldn’t get anymore.

You think any parent should be able to opt out for any reason without consequences. I agree they should be able to opt out, but without a medically valid reason they should be responsible for the consequences of that decision. If that means their kid can’t go to daycare or public school or college, so be it.

There are laws that require mandatory vaccinations to participate in those things. Just like there are laws for inclusion in a million other things in our society. Don’t want to apply for a passport? Ok, but no overseas travel. Don’t want to get a drivers license or car insurance? Ok, but no driving for you. Don’t want to pay your taxes? Ok, but don’t be surprised when the IRS starts garnishing your wages.

Choices have consequences. No one should be forced to vaccinate, but neither should they expect the rest of the world to roll over and meekly accept the risk associated with their decision.

The system is changing and what worked “as designed” back in the day for Kara’s daughter but may prevent people from going to college in the future. You seem to be ok with that.
 
Old 04-10-2019, 07:41 AM
 
6,620 posts, read 4,565,370 times
Reputation: 13253
Quote:
Originally Posted by MissTerri View Post
The system is changing and what worked “as designed” back in the day for Kara’s daughter but may prevent people from going to college in the future. You seem to be ok with that.
Am I ok with an unvaccinated 18 year old with no medically indicated reason not to be vaccinated being excluded from attending a brick and mortar college? All day long. At 18 they’re legally adults and can override their parents decision to not vaccinate them, get the mandatory vaccines and go live in a dorm or they can choose not to and attend one of the many online colleges.
 
Old 04-10-2019, 07:49 AM
 
9,568 posts, read 5,764,693 times
Reputation: 9636
Quote:
Originally Posted by UNC4Me View Post
Am I ok with an unvaccinated 18 year old with no medically indicated reason not to be vaccinated being excluded from attending a brick and mortar college? All day long. At 18 they’re legally adults and can override their parents decision to not vaccinate them, get the mandatory vaccines and go live in a dorm or they can choose not to and attend one of the many online colleges.
I’m talking about people like Kara’s daughter who had a reaction to a vaccine but who may not in the future qualify for a medical exemption based on the narrowing criteria of what qualifies as a legitimate medical exemption. There is legislation being introduced in at least some states that would limit a doctor’s ability to provide medical exemptions unless they are for very specific things. Anaphylaxis being the main one.

You still say, get vaccinated and risk a more severe reaction, maybe even death or choose to forgo a college education which will limit all of your opportunities in life? This is not as cut and dry as some are wanting to make it out to be. This is why it’s important to allow people to make important medical decisions with their doctors, not legislators.
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