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Old 04-10-2019, 08:06 AM
 
5,799 posts, read 4,376,891 times
Reputation: 12736

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Quote:
Originally Posted by MissTerri View Post
Iím talking about people like Karaís daughter who had a reaction to a vaccine but who may not in the future qualify for a medical exemption based on the narrowing criteria of what qualifies as a legitimate medical exemption. There is legislation being introduced in at least some states that would limit a doctorís ability to provide medical exemptions unless they are for very specific things. Anaphylaxis being the main one.

You still say, risk it, get vaccinated and risk a more severe reaction or choose to forgo a college education which will limit all of your opportunities in life? This is not as cut and dry as some are wanting to make it out to be. This is why itís important to allow people to make important medical decisions with their doctors, not legislators.
Neither your nor I know what the reaction was or whether or not it would qualify as a current medical exemption so that question is moot.

In California where they are considering narrowing the criteria, but itís due to parents and unethical doctors abusing the system. A psychiatrist who runs an anti aging clinic is handing out exemptions to 5 year olds? Another is selling exemptions to patients heís never seen who live across the state. Sounds like reform is needed to curb the bogus waivers.

And what happens when an ethical and competent doctor and a parent disagree about continuing vaccines? Should he or she be forced to provide a medical exemption just because a parent is demanding it and not because itís medically necessary? I think not. When that occurs the doctor should refuse and let the parent do as they choose. And bear the consequences.

 
Old 04-10-2019, 08:13 AM
 
8,969 posts, read 5,579,539 times
Reputation: 9373
Quote:
Originally Posted by UNC4Me View Post
Neither your nor I know what the reaction was or whether or not it would qualify as a current medical exemption so that question is moot.

In California where they are considering narrowing the criteria, but itís due to parents and unethical doctors abusing the system. A psychiatrist who runs an anti aging clinic is handing out exemptions to 5 year olds? Another is selling exemptions to patients heís never seen who live across the state. Sounds like reform is needed to curb the bogus waivers.

And what happens when an ethical and competent doctor and a parent disagree about continuing vaccines? Should he or she be forced to provide a medical exemption just because a parent is demanding it and not because itís medically necessary? I think not. When that occurs the doctor should refuse and let the parent do as they choose. And bear the consequences.
California is not the only state and it goes much further then just a few unethical doctors. Letís say your child has a seizure post vaccine. You will not get an exemption for subsequent vaccinations. Letís say you have a child die from a vaccine reaction. You will not be allowed to opt your future children out. I donít think people fully grasp the road weíre going down nor do I think people understand how they would feel if their child was the one who had the reaction. These decisions must be allowed to be made with oneís doctor.
 
Old 04-10-2019, 08:13 AM
 
3,659 posts, read 2,605,689 times
Reputation: 6679
Quote:
Originally Posted by UNC4Me View Post
The system worked as designed for the posters granddaughter. Vaccines were given. Reaction occurred. Doctor and parents together determined she shouldnít get anymore.

You think any parent should be able to opt out for any reason without consequences. I agree they should be able to opt out, but without a medically valid reason they should be responsible for the consequences of that decision. If that means their kid canít go to daycare or public school or college, so be it.

There are laws that require mandatory vaccinations to participate in those things.

Choices have consequences. No one should be forced to vaccinate, but neither should they expect the rest of the world to roll over and meekly accept the risk associated with their decision.
It's my daughter, not granddaughter. She did not get a medical exemption. She would not have qualified for one. It was a doctor parent decision to opt out. The reason was not medically valid ENOUGH for today or back then. But I believe 100% I was right to stop. There was no hysteria or terror or banning or even discussion about herd immunity. I signed a general exemption form when she entered school.

So now what do you want to do about her? She already went to preschools, schools, college and is now in the workforce. What consequences should she have? Because she is in that group you're complaining about.
 
Old 04-10-2019, 08:20 AM
 
5,799 posts, read 4,376,891 times
Reputation: 12736
Quote:
Originally Posted by MissTerri View Post
California is not the only state and it goes much further then just a few unethical doctors. Let’s say your child has a seizure post vaccine. You will not get an exemption for subsequent vaccinations. Let’s say you have a child die from a vaccine reaction. You will not be allowed to opt your future children out. I don’t think people fully grasp the road we’re going down nor do I think people understand how they would feel if their child was the one who had the reaction. These decisions must be allowed to be made with one’s doctor.
Please provide links to legislation stating a seizure caused directly by a vaccine is not a valid medical exemption.

Those who refuse to vaccinate just because (and they are the majority of those who don’t vaccinate) don’t fully grasp what it would be like to have a child die or be permanently disabled due to a VPD. Just so they can avoid vaccines for no valid reason. Those are the people who are selfishly causing all exemptions to be called into question.
 
Old 04-10-2019, 08:27 AM
 
6,005 posts, read 3,439,489 times
Reputation: 7046
NYC goes farther than Rockland.

https://abc7ny.com/health/measles-ou...-some/5239006/

If judge ruled Rockalnd's was too far reaching, this is even worse, and totally unenforceable. This applies to every man, woman, and child. Article says children were majority of cases but 39 adults also came down with measles.

Are the police going to knock on the doors of thousands of people living in those 4 area codes? Police stopping people on the streets, stores, and businesses demanding, "Papers, Citizens". Those who might have come into contact with infected people? They only stayed in that area? None ever rode buses and the subway into other boroughs? Anyone who ever rode the subway on such and such dates? Millions of people? This is totally unenforceable.

Have you saved all your vaccination records from when you were a child decades ago? Is your Pediatrician still in practice, or ALIVE today? Oh, well just get another vaccination, or your tithers tested. Going to be a lot of elderly people needing to do this.

IF they find you out and you just pay that $1,000 fine and still refuse, then what? You go to jail? If a judge ruled on Rockland ban for unvaccinated children under 18, don't there won't be a lawsuit coming with this?

Again, this edict in NYC doesn't only involve children.
 
Old 04-10-2019, 08:28 AM
 
8,969 posts, read 5,579,539 times
Reputation: 9373
Quote:
Originally Posted by UNC4Me View Post
Please provide links to legislation stating a seizure caused directly by a vaccine is not a valid medical exemption.

Those who refuse to vaccinate just because (and they are the majority of those who don’t vaccinate) don’t fully grasp what it would be like to have a child die or be permanently disabled due to a VPD. Just so they can avoid vaccines for no valid reason. Those are the people who are selfishly causing all exemptions to be called into question.
My state of Colorado just introduced legislation to use ACIP’s very narrow list of contraindications for exemptions.

Quote:
The state board of health is:
! Required to promulgate rules adopting the medical exemption recommendations from the advisory committee on immunization practices of the centers for disease control and prevention in the federal department of health and human services, or any successor entity (ACIP)”
Here are the accepted contraindications on the ACIP’s list. Note that there is a difference between precautions and contraindications.
https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/hcp/aci...dications.html

Of course people who don’t vaccinate consider the risk of death from disease. How can you even believe that they would not.
 
Old 04-10-2019, 08:29 AM
 
5,799 posts, read 4,376,891 times
Reputation: 12736
Quote:
Originally Posted by KaraG View Post
It's my daughter, not granddaughter. She did not get a medical exemption. She would not have qualified for one. It was a doctor parent decision to opt out. The reason was not medically valid ENOUGH for today or back then. But I believe 100% I was right to stop. There was no hysteria or terror or banning or even discussion about herd immunity. I signed a general exemption form when she entered school.

So now what do you want to do about her? She already went to preschools, schools, college and is now in the workforce. What consequences should she have? Because she is in that group you're complaining about.
Sheís an adult. Thereís nothing to do about her lack of vaccines since she apparently doesnít work in a medical capacity where vaccines are mandatory.

If your school allowed general exemptions during that period, then there were not nor should there have been any reason to exclude her from school. Same with college. But, times have changed. Today she may not have been allowed to enroll in public school or attend a brick and mortar college IF her doctor didnít believe providing a medical exemption was warranted. And you still would have the right to choose not to continue vaccinations. No one should be forced into vaccinating their child or themselves regardless of whether their reasons are warranted or not.
 
Old 04-10-2019, 08:32 AM
 
8,969 posts, read 5,579,539 times
Reputation: 9373
Quote:
Originally Posted by UNC4Me View Post
She’s an adult. There’s nothing to do about her lack of vaccines since she apparently doesn’t work in a medical capacity where vaccines are mandatory.

If your school allowed general exemptions during that period, then there were not nor should there have been any reason to exclude her from school. Same with college. But, times have changed. Today she may not have been allowed to enroll in public school or attend a brick and mortar college IF her doctor didn’t believe providing a medical exemption was warranted. And you still would have the right to choose not to continue vaccinations. No one should be forced into vaccinating their child or themselves regardless of whether their reasons are warranted or not.
But if she was a child now, getting to ready to enter Kindergarten you’d tell Kara to homeschool her and accept the consequences of her choices not to vaccinate in spite of her reaction.
 
Old 04-10-2019, 08:34 AM
Status: "Spring has Sprung!" (set 19 days ago)
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
86,346 posts, read 101,350,397 times
Reputation: 32752
Quote:
Originally Posted by MissTerri View Post
You don’t know if she would qualify for a medical exemption in any state who decides to go with the narrow interpretation of contraindications via the ACIP guidelines which are being proposed in at least some states. She may not and you’d be fine with her daughter missing out on the opportunity to go to college due to that. This is not always as cut and dry as people think. People are not all perfect clones of one another and some people will react badly to a vaccine, food or other medication yet others will be 100% fine. There are also risks to getting sick. There is truth to both sides. I hate how polarizing this has gotten. Let people decide with their doctors.
Please tell us which states, with links to reliable sources. e.g., we know NVIC exaggerates, so no NVIC.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MissTerri View Post
I’m talking about people like Kara’s daughter who had a reaction to a vaccine but who may not in the future qualify for a medical exemption based on the narrowing criteria of what qualifies as a legitimate medical exemption. There is legislation being introduced in at least some states that would limit a doctor’s ability to provide medical exemptions unless they are for very specific things. Anaphylaxis being the main one.

You still say, get vaccinated and risk a more severe reaction, maybe even death or choose to forgo a college education which will limit all of your opportunities in life? This is not as cut and dry as some are wanting to make it out to be. This is why it’s important to allow people to make important medical decisions with their doctors, not legislators.
Again, which states? And do can the hyperbole.

Quote:
Originally Posted by UNC4Me View Post
Neither your nor I know what the reaction was or whether or not it would qualify as a current medical exemption so that question is moot.

In California where they are considering narrowing the criteria, but it’s due to parents and unethical doctors abusing the system. A psychiatrist who runs an anti aging clinic is handing out exemptions to 5 year olds? Another is selling exemptions to patients he’s never seen who live across the state. Sounds like reform is needed to curb the bogus waivers.

And what happens when an ethical and competent doctor and a parent disagree about continuing vaccines? Should he or she be forced to provide a medical exemption just because a parent is demanding it and not because it’s medically necessary? I think not. When that occurs the doctor should refuse and let the parent do as they choose. And bear the consequences.
Agreed. In fact, I saw this happen in the office where I worked as a pediatric nurse. A parent wanted a medical exemption for his kid because in our state (CO) those are "one and done" whereas the religious/personal belief exemptions have to be renewed every year. The doctor refused.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MissTerri View Post
California is not the only state and it goes much further then just a few unethical doctors. Let’s say your child has a seizure post vaccine. You will not get an exemption for subsequent vaccinations. Let’s say you have a child die from a vaccine reaction. You will not be allowed to opt your future children out. I don’t think people fully grasp the road we’re going down nor do I think people understand how they would feel if their child was the one who had the reaction. These decisions must be allowed to be made with one’s doctor.
California gave the doctors pretty wide leeway, "carte blanche" actually for exemptions. Unfortunately, the charlatans got in the act and may have ruined it for everyone.

Conspiracies, conspiracies!
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/03/09/o...i-vaxxers.html
"This isn’t just a public health crisis. It’s a public sanity one."
"The parents who are worried or sure about grave risks from vaccines reflect a broader horror that has flickered or flared in everything from the birther movement to “Pizzagate,” that nonsense about children as Democratic sex slaves in the imagined basement of a Washington pizza joint. Their recklessness and the attendant re-emergence of measles aren’t just a public health crisis. They’re a public sanity one, emblematic of too many people’s willful disregard of evidence, proud suspicion of expertise and estrangement from reason."


Quote:
Originally Posted by KaraG View Post
It's my daughter, not granddaughter. She did not get a medical exemption. She would not have qualified for one. It was a doctor parent decision to opt out. The reason was not medically valid ENOUGH for today or back then. But I believe 100% I was right to stop. There was no hysteria or terror or banning or even discussion about herd immunity. I signed a general exemption form when she entered school.

So now what do you want to do about her? She already went to preschools, schools, college and is now in the workforce. What consequences should she have? Because she is in that group you're complaining about.
This is kind of "doublespeak". Unless you lived in one of the two states (at the time) that did not allow religious/PB exemptions, it doesn't matter whose decision it was.

I don't think anyone is suggesting any consequences for your daughter. She may at some point have a job where she has to be vaccinated for something, most likely flu but maybe Hep B and/or MMR as well, and then she, as an adult, will have to make a decision. In the meantime, herd immunity will likely protect her from most disease.
 
Old 04-10-2019, 08:42 AM
 
8,969 posts, read 5,579,539 times
Reputation: 9373
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katarina Witt View Post
Conspiracies, conspiracies!
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/03/09/o...i-vaxxers.html
"This isn’t just a public health crisis. It’s a public sanity one."
"The parents who are worried or sure about grave risks from vaccines reflect a broader horror that has flickered or flared in everything from the birther movement to “Pizzagate,” that nonsense about children as Democratic sex slaves in the imagined basement of a Washington pizza joint. Their recklessness and the attendant re-emergence of measles aren’t just a public health crisis. They’re a public sanity one, emblematic of too many people’s willful disregard of evidence, proud suspicion of expertise and estrangement from reason."
WTF?! You really believe this crap? Looks like you’re the one buying into conspiracy theories.

Last edited by MissTerri; 04-10-2019 at 08:53 AM..
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