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Old 04-04-2019, 07:13 PM
 
Location: North West Arkansas (zone 6b)
2,624 posts, read 1,909,424 times
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I suspect that the larger issue with Rockland county is the significant portion of the population which is hasidic jew. Those waldorf kids just got caught up with the larger (targeted) group so as not to appear biased against one particular part of the population

I lived in Rockland county for years and everyone who lives there knows it's because of all the hasidem.

 
Old 04-04-2019, 08:13 PM
 
Location: Georgia, USA
22,552 posts, read 27,508,553 times
Reputation: 28168
Quote:
Originally Posted by gunslinger256 View Post
I suspect that the larger issue with Rockland county is the significant portion of the population which is hasidic jew. Those waldorf kids just got caught up with the larger (targeted) group so as not to appear biased against one particular part of the population

I lived in Rockland county for years and everyone who lives there knows it's because of all the hasidem.
Measles does not care whether you are Jewish or not. Be in proximity to someone who is infectious with it and the odds are 90% that you will catch it if you have never had it or are not vaccinated.

The parents of the Waldorf kids knew that if there was an outbreak of measles the children could not go to school. It applies to all schools, not just the Waldorf. The Waldorf just attracts anti-vax parents.
 
Old 04-05-2019, 01:02 PM
 
12,253 posts, read 10,180,943 times
Reputation: 16902
Quote:
Originally Posted by suzy_q2010 View Post
Measles does not care whether you are Jewish or not. Be in proximity to someone who is infectious with it and the odds are 90% that you will catch it if you have never had it or are not vaccinated.

The parents of the Waldorf kids knew that if there was an outbreak of measles the children could not go to school. It applies to all schools, not just the Waldorf. The Waldorf just attracts anti-vax parents.
I think the point was that Hasidic Jews have lower rates of vaccination. There are a ton of Hasidics in certain areas of Rockland County, and Lakewood, NJ, too, where an outbreak is also centered. I think there was also a problem in Brooklyn at some point, where you also find a lot of ultra-Orthodox Jews. Pretty sure a lot of the cases can be traced to travel to Israel, where there's been a measles outbreak for months.

It really cannot be a coincidence that outbreaks are happening in these types of areas. Obviously any unvaccinated person is at risk, but clearly there is some type of trend with at least some of that population.
 
Old 04-05-2019, 01:09 PM
 
Location: Upstate NY
33,508 posts, read 9,970,492 times
Reputation: 31712
[quote=Katarina Witt;54860847]Perhaps you could document this 100% acceptance. With primary sources, please.

If that stuff didn't work, people wouldn't produce it. If you've ever been in vaccine discussions on facebook and the like, you see people posting youtube videos made by people who haven't taken a science course since high school (if then, Jim Carrey didn't even graduate HS) and all sorts of nonsense from antivaccine websites such as "Whale", "Natural News" and the like.

What do you mean by "suspicious" and "people like you"? I don't think you understand "informed choice". As for suspicious, it's well known that people opposed to vaccines tend to believe in other conspiracy theories as well. https://khn.org/morning-breakout/vie...ng-screenings/



LMAO That link is supposed to prove, or even suggest, that "people opposed to vaccines" (as opposed to "some people opposed to certain vaccines) are conspiracy theorists? And this is "well-known," too? Give me a break. Go back and read the tone of that drivel.

Your "scientific" balderdash has just been debunked.
 
Old 04-05-2019, 01:37 PM
 
8,969 posts, read 5,579,539 times
Reputation: 9373
Quote:
Originally Posted by JerseyGirl415 View Post
I think the point was that Hasidic Jews have lower rates of vaccination. There are a ton of Hasidics in certain areas of Rockland County, and Lakewood, NJ, too, where an outbreak is also centered. I think there was also a problem in Brooklyn at some point, where you also find a lot of ultra-Orthodox Jews. Pretty sure a lot of the cases can be traced to travel to Israel, where there's been a measles outbreak for months.

It really cannot be a coincidence that outbreaks are happening in these types of areas. Obviously any unvaccinated person is at risk, but clearly there is some type of trend with at least some of that population.
True, the initial case was brought to the US via a traveler from Isreal. The outbreak has been mostly confined to this particular orthodox community. As of the date of the initial ban there were 5 active cases in the entire county.
 
Old 04-05-2019, 01:47 PM
 
Location: Georgia, USA
22,552 posts, read 27,508,553 times
Reputation: 28168
Quote:
Originally Posted by JerseyGirl415 View Post
I think the point was that Hasidic Jews have lower rates of vaccination. There are a ton of Hasidics in certain areas of Rockland County, and Lakewood, NJ, too, where an outbreak is also centered. I think there was also a problem in Brooklyn at some point, where you also find a lot of ultra-Orthodox Jews. Pretty sure a lot of the cases can be traced to travel to Israel, where there's been a measles outbreak for months.

It really cannot be a coincidence that outbreaks are happening in these types of areas. Obviously any unvaccinated person is at risk, but clearly there is some type of trend with at least some of that population.
Yes, the outbreak is centered on the Hasidic community. That does not mean that your unvaccinated child could not come into contact with someone from that community. Keep him home until the outbreak is controlled.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Delahanty View Post

LMAO That link is supposed to prove, or even suggest, that "people opposed to vaccines" (as opposed to "some people opposed to certain vaccines) are conspiracy theorists? And this is "well-known," too? Give me a break. Go back and read the tone of that drivel.

Your "scientific" balderdash has just been debunked.
It shows that some leaders of the antivax movement also believe in chemtrails. Even if you read posts here on CD you will find people who think vaccines are a government conspiracy or that pharma conspires to get vaccines on school mandate lists.

https://www.apa.org/news/press/relea...ine-skepticism

"People who believe Princess Diana was murdered or that John F. Kennedyís assassination was an elaborate plot are more likely to think that vaccines are unsafe, despite scientific evidence to the contrary, according to research published by the American Psychological Association."
 
Old 04-05-2019, 01:55 PM
Status: "Spring has Sprung!" (set 19 days ago)
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
86,346 posts, read 101,350,397 times
Reputation: 32752
Quote:
Originally Posted by Delahanty View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katarina Witt View Post
Perhaps you could document this 100% acceptance. With primary sources, please.

If that stuff didn't work, people wouldn't produce it. If you've ever been in vaccine discussions on facebook and the like, you see people posting youtube videos made by people who haven't taken a science course since high school (if then, Jim Carrey didn't even graduate HS) and all sorts of nonsense from antivaccine websites such as "Whale", "Natural News" and the like.

What do you mean by "suspicious" and "people like you"? I don't think you understand "informed choice". As for suspicious, it's well known that people opposed to vaccines tend to believe in other conspiracy theories as well. https://khn.org/morning-breakout/vie...ng-screenings/


LMAO That link is supposed to prove, or even suggest, that "people opposed to vaccines" (as opposed to "some people opposed to certain vaccines) are conspiracy theorists? And this is "well-known," too? Give me a break. Go back and read the tone of that drivel.

Your "scientific" balderdash has just been debunked.
I would suggest that first you learn how to format so I don't have to do it next time. There's lots more too, like this:
https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/ant...racy-theories/
"If you think vaccines are ineffective, youíre more likely to claim that 9/11 was an ďinside jobĒ, that Princess Diana was murdered, and that a powerful and secretive group known as the New World Order are planning to eventually rule the world. Itís also possible that youíre queasy around blood, or the thought of needles. Finally,you may be angered by anything you perceive as a limit on your freedom."
My allowable three; there's much more. This is a report on a study of 5000 adults in 24 countries. The bold is very common here on CD; we've seen it on this thread. Here's a link to the study:
https://www.apa.org/pubs/journals/re...hea0000586.pdf


Another, this one from the right-wing side:
https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/o...rists-they-are
This is an opinion piece. I found this line funny: "Anti-vaxxing is a conspiracy tantamount to 9/11 trutherism and "Pizzagate."

This is an excellent article: https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/b...science-denial
I'll pick three sentences.
"Researchers at Stony Brook University performed an experiment that demonstrated that exposure to conspiracy theories about vaccines is more influential on those with pre-existing negative feelings about pharmaceutical companies and the news media." We see this a lot on vaccine threads, e.g. "The CDC, FDA, ""Big Pharma"" and the mainstream media are all corrupt and evil".

"In addition to conspiracy-based mistrust, Matthew Motta and his colleagues explored whether the Dunning-Kruger Effect ó whereby those with the lowest levels of actual knowledge tend to have the greatest degree of overconfidence regarding self-rated expertise ó might figure into anti-vaccination beliefs.15 Administering a survey to 1310 US adults, they found that over a third of respondents believed they knew as much or more about the causes of autism than doctors and scientists and that such overconfidence was highest when respondents demonstrated low levels of actual knowledge and higher levels of misinformation about the relationship between autism and vaccines." Yeppers! See that here on CD frequently. I would add POTS, ASIA, and some others to autism that some of these posters think they know more about than doctors and scientists.
 
Old 04-05-2019, 02:02 PM
 
8,969 posts, read 5,579,539 times
Reputation: 9373
Itís frustrating, sad and really pathetic that some people go to such great lengths to try to stereotype, label and slander others for simply exercising their ability to make healthcare choices for themselves and their families. Itís sickening actually.
 
Old 04-05-2019, 02:05 PM
Status: "Spring has Sprung!" (set 19 days ago)
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
86,346 posts, read 101,350,397 times
Reputation: 32752
Quote:
Originally Posted by MissTerri View Post
True, the initial case was brought to the US via a traveler from Isreal. The outbreak has been mostly confined to this particular orthodox community. As of the date of the initial ban there were 5 active cases in the entire county.
Frankly, I found this string of conversation to be rather anti-semitic. It's well known there's a lot of anti-semitism in the anti-vaccine movement.
https://secular.org/2019/04/an-outbr...anti-semitism/
https://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2...on-journalists

Secondly, how many cases of measles does it take to call it an outbreak, officially that is?

There have been other outbreaks in other communities with low vaccination rates, for ex, the Slavic community in Clark County, WA, the Amish community in Ohio and the Disneyland attending community in southern California and other states.
https://www.vox.com/2019/3/19/182636...9-clark-county
 
Old 04-05-2019, 02:08 PM
 
Location: Georgia, USA
22,552 posts, read 27,508,553 times
Reputation: 28168
Quote:
Originally Posted by MissTerri View Post
Itís frustrating, sad and really pathetic that some people go to such great lengths to try to stereotype, label and slander others for simply exercising their ability to make healthcare choices for themselves and their families. Itís sickening actually.
What is really happening is that anti-vaxers are being called out for the pseudoscientific nonsense that they use to support not vaccinating.

It's not slander if it is true.

You are welcome to choose not to vaccinate. Just be willing to accept the consequences, including keeping your children at home during a measles outbreak if they are not vaccinated against measles.
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