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Old Yesterday, 05:00 PM
 
8,865 posts, read 9,012,529 times
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[quote=Labonte18;54807794]Not sure where I fall on this. First, another misreporting is that it was a SWAT team. It was not. It was just a group of officers.

But.. While I certainly don't think this is the case.. What if these people were Christian Scientists? While I certainly don't agree with those people.. We do allow freedom of religion and they are allowed to not take their kids to the doctor at all.[/QUOTE]

Not true. Legally, child neglect occurs when parents are faced with a medical condition that involves imminent risk of death or seriously bodily injury to a child and they don't act.

No, you don't have a right to keep your child from getting life-saving medical treatment because of some **** and bull "religious belief".
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Old Yesterday, 06:52 PM
 
6,107 posts, read 3,284,513 times
Reputation: 3322
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hulsker 1856 View Post
Aside from the tactical response, the fact is that there are laws that require a certain minimal level of care for children to be provided by parents. Society as a whole isn't cool with some parents choosing to deny their children medical care. Again, that question is separate from the matter of sending in a SWAT team - but you're the one who is focusing on the notion that, heaven forbid, a medical professional ever report to law enforcement when parents are denying medical care to their children.
.
Doesn't sound like they were denying medical care .... sounds more like they didn't do what the doctor told them. In some places, this gets you a visit from a SWAT team.
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Old Yesterday, 06:55 PM
 
6,107 posts, read 3,284,513 times
Reputation: 3322
Quote:
Originally Posted by Labonte18 View Post
Not sure where I fall on this. First, another misreporting is that it was a SWAT team. It was not. It was just a group of officers.
That video didn't look like your average group of officers.
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Old Yesterday, 11:18 PM
 
9,045 posts, read 2,250,506 times
Reputation: 6217
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveinMtAiry View Post
This changes everything, can you provide a link so we can read more?
That smells an awful lot like the Police dept trying to muddy the waters/details, to make more people believe they were in the right for taking this action...it all seems very convenient for them!
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Old Yesterday, 11:42 PM
 
Location: Mid-Atlantic
24,044 posts, read 23,033,785 times
Reputation: 29468
Quote:
Originally Posted by Minethatbird View Post
That video didn't look like your average group of officers.
It doesn't look like it to me, but I've never had my door breached by a SWAT team. They did what they were assigned to do, but the person who assigned that task is an idiot.
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Old Today, 12:09 AM
 
3,897 posts, read 3,581,546 times
Reputation: 10396
I have warned parents who won't immunize their children that if their child has a fever, they have to be aware that it could be bacterial meningitis, and that the first thing that they must tell any healthcare provider that they contact is that the child is unimmunized or under-immunized, so that the healthcare provider will know to be suspicious of bacterial meningitis.

So, here we have an unimmunized toddler with a very high fever. It could be just their first episode of mouth sores. But it could very possibly be bacterial meningitis. They take the kid, not to an MD, but to a naturopath. The naturopath has the common sense to realize that the kid needs to be evaluated at the ED. Naturopath probably told them that this was an emergency, and that they needed to go STRAIGHT to the ED. The parents didn't - and believe me, they weren't en-route to the ED, stopped to take the child's temperature, and he was now fine, so they went home instead. They had no intention of taking that kid the ED. They're just lucky that the kid got better on his own from a very likely viral infection. The naturopath probably called the ED, found out the kid never showed up, so as a mandated reporter, HAD to notify State Child Services. Parents refused access to the child, hence the SWAT team.

Fortunately, the kid got better. But what if the kid had had bacterial meningitis? The child would have died without medical care. And these parents already had made some whacko choices by not immunizing the child, and by taking the unimmunized child, with a fever of 105, to a naturopath. It was entirely possible that they would have decided to avoid the ER, and instead take the child home and treat it with fruit juice and herbs.

As far as anyone in the entire chain of events knew, this WAS an emergency. And the SWAT team WAS warranted. If the kid had had bacterial meningitis, they would have saved that child's life.
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Old Today, 12:41 AM
 
Location: Georgia, USA
22,371 posts, read 27,372,543 times
Reputation: 27977
Quote:
Originally Posted by parentologist View Post
I have warned parents who won't immunize their children that if their child has a fever, they have to be aware that it could be bacterial meningitis, and that the first thing that they must tell any healthcare provider that they contact is that the child is unimmunized or under-immunized, so that the healthcare provider will know to be suspicious of bacterial meningitis.

So, here we have an unimmunized toddler with a very high fever. It could be just their first episode of mouth sores. But it could very possibly be bacterial meningitis. They take the kid, not to an MD, but to a naturopath. The naturopath has the common sense to realize that the kid needs to be evaluated at the ED. Naturopath probably told them that this was an emergency, and that they needed to go STRAIGHT to the ED. The parents didn't - and believe me, they weren't en-route to the ED, stopped to take the child's temperature, and he was now fine, so they went home instead. They had no intention of taking that kid the ED. They're just lucky that the kid got better on his own from a very likely viral infection*. The naturopath probably called the ED, found out the kid never showed up, so as a mandated reporter, HAD to notify State Child Services. Parents refused access to the child, hence the SWAT team.

Fortunately, the kid got better. But what if the kid had had bacterial meningitis? The child would have died without medical care. And these parents already had made some whacko choices by not immunizing the child, and by taking the unimmunized child, with a fever of 105, to a naturopath. It was entirely possible that they would have decided to avoid the ER, and instead take the child home and treat it with fruit juice and herbs.

As far as anyone in the entire chain of events knew, this WAS an emergency. And the SWAT team WAS warranted. If the kid had had bacterial meningitis, they would have saved that child's life.
You beat me to this.

What you are describing is the exact scenario that resulted in the death of a toddler, Ezekiel Stephan, in Canada in 2012. A naturopath was involved in that case, too, and I suspect (or would hope) in the wake of that disaster that naturopaths in the US would be sensitive to the hazards of attempting to treat sick children.

* I understand the child in this report was diagnosed with respiratory syncytial virus, which usually resolves without serious complications. However, there was no way to know he had that and not hemophilus influenzae without an exam and appropriate testing.
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