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Old 04-03-2019, 05:18 PM
 
Location: London U.K.
1,396 posts, read 590,833 times
Reputation: 2787

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Quote:
Originally Posted by tamajane View Post
It sounds like we need to get self driving ride services in the future.

I don't like the idea of getting in a car alone with a strange guy, esp at night, really even if he's legit.
As a retired London licenced Black Cab driver, this reminded me of a time when I picked up a 30 something woman in Cavendish Square, central London, one early evening, who asked for Primrose Hill, a nice safe north London area.
The quickest route was through Regents Park, as I drove through there, she said, ďThe only time Iíd ever let a man who I didnít know drive me through the park, would be a London Black Cab driver.Ē
I thought, ĎJeez, there were women down my street when I was in my 20s, whoíd faint if they thought that I was dating their daughter, now suddenly Iím a safe bet.í

Quote:
Originally Posted by oceangaia View Post
What good does that do you if you are killed? If you hail it down from the corner, no one will have any record that you ever got in that cab.
The chances of hailing a Black Cab in London and being murdered are about ten gazillion to one, all I was ever interested in, was getting whatever was on the meter.
Coming from a city where all real taxi drivers know every street, hospital, embassy, hotel, theatre, and most good restaurants, I was amazed when I flagged a Yellow Cab by Washington Square NYC, and asked for East 57th. at FDR Drive, and after a couple of minutes, he asked me, ďDo you know if E. 23rd is two way?Ē
I thought, ďAre you kidding? Iím the one with the limey accent, and youíre asking me?Ē
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Old 04-03-2019, 05:56 PM
 
Location: Queens, NY
3,793 posts, read 2,133,486 times
Reputation: 4750
Quote:
Originally Posted by ocnjgirl View Post
Yes, and that's a good idea. I am simply pointing out the vast majority of people don't do that. People are singling her out like she's some kind of idiot, but most people don't think like that, even if it's a good idea to. I just object to vilifying her. I think we can suggest ways to stay safe without doing that.
On the contrary, I'd say a lot of people do that. I'm one of them.
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Old 04-03-2019, 06:17 PM
 
19,387 posts, read 15,971,234 times
Reputation: 36568
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arcenal352 View Post
Yes, I think we have all done something similar. However, generally, you are not looking at your phone tracking your car as it drives toward you. The difference is that you can literally see the carís exact location on your phone, and see when it arrives at the very spot you asked it to.
I think with young people though they take Uber so much they take it for granted. Theyíve done it XXX number of times, and itís always been fine. I think itís easy to let your guard down when thatís the case. Back in the late 70s when I was a teenager, I got into complete strangers cars via hitchhiking on a very regular basis. As Iíve gotten older, Iíve gotten more cautious, but I donít think that comes naturally for young people.
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Old 04-03-2019, 06:21 PM
 
Location: colorado springs, CO
4,556 posts, read 2,098,048 times
Reputation: 15700
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe the Photog View Post
I cannot do anything about violent men.
Exactly. We can't change anybody else or what they do; we only change what we do. Women can "play the offense line" & prevent something like this from happening or they can play the defense & stop it after it starts. This woman was trapped the second she shut the door. Unless she was armed; there was no defense to play. Game over.

Why is this so hard for some to understand? Prevention is not subservience; it's part of what is known as street smarts. It's survival.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe the Photog View Post
I almost blame her friends more than I do her. They let a girl who had been drinking call Uber for a ride home? I hope they at least partly blame themselves.
Me too. This troubles me. Maybe they also thought they; "shouldn't have to, because that shouldn't happen..."

Quote:
Originally Posted by JerseyGirl415 View Post
That depends on why men are so violent, what the causes are. If they are in any way social causes, even partially, then yes, you can. We all can. Maybe it has something to do, partially, with how the sexes are socialized. Do men truly always commit sex crimes to exert power or is it ever at all because they feel entitled to sex, for example? When a woman rejects them and they kill her, do they do that because they have not been taught how to properly handle rejection, their emotions?

Stressing safety is important but it's stupid to act like this has nothing to do with the fact that men are the more violent sex, by a landslide, and that they commit random violent acts like this far too often.
You don't give men much credit; do you. And parents even less. Even my opinion that; we've spent the last 50 years raising boys to be socially-neutered & now look where we are at... isn't the real issue here.

Women who do not understand that they are vulnerable will not be interested in being empowered. That's at least a part of the real issue.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JerseyGirl415 View Post
Also, her friends are not at fault. The one who killed her is solely at fault.
So what. If they would have been there; she would be alive.
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Old 04-03-2019, 06:34 PM
 
Location: colorado springs, CO
4,556 posts, read 2,098,048 times
Reputation: 15700
Quote:
Originally Posted by duke944 View Post
I wouldn't necessarily be worried about walking into a psycho's car, I would be more concerned with the reaction of "what in hell are you doing in my car?!"
Yes! If someone just jumped into my back seat while I was on the road at night; I'd think I was being carjacked. I wouldn't/couldn't hurt a fly but there are some pretty jumpy people out there; there are several ways I can think of where this could end badly for someone. Anyone; not just women.
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Old 04-03-2019, 06:39 PM
 
8,985 posts, read 4,535,223 times
Reputation: 31142
Quote:
Originally Posted by ocnjgirl View Post
I have too often in my life let safety slide for fear the person will think I don't trust them. In that situation, I might've thought "Oh, I'm not going to go around and check the license because he'll think I'm only doing it cause he's black". I know it's stupid. For some reason I still feel like I have to fight programming that says I'm supposed to be nice and agreeable and make people feel comfortable.
Personally, I don't care if a person I've never met and will likely never ever see again thinks I don't trust them. My safety ALWAYS trumps protecting their feelings.

And Uber drivers are well aware of passengers' safety concerns. If they get offended because someone is taking the time to ensure their safety, they have no business being in the service industry.

Do not ever compromise your safety for someone else, particularly someone who has no bearing on your life.
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Old 04-03-2019, 07:00 PM
 
Location: Vallejo
13,796 posts, read 15,698,239 times
Reputation: 12411
Quote:
Originally Posted by ocnjgirl View Post
Yes, and that's a good idea. I am simply pointing out the vast majority of people don't do that. People are singling her out like she's some kind of idiot, but most people don't think like that, even if it's a good idea to. I just object to vilifying her. I think we can suggest ways to stay safe without doing that.
She was. That doesn't mean she deserved what happened to her, and at the same time what happened to her doesn't nullify that she acted like an idiot. My normal protocol with Uber is track on GPS, match vehicle make, model, color and visually check the driver appears to be who I expect. It's zero effort. It isn't perfect. While extremely unlikely it's remotely possible the Uber she actually order was pulling up 15 second behind and was a black sedan driven by a 20 to 40 year old black man. That's why confirming the license plate and verifying the driver knows your name are good ideas.
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Old 04-03-2019, 07:01 PM
 
12,232 posts, read 10,155,788 times
Reputation: 16866
Quote:
Originally Posted by coschristi View Post
Exactly. We can't change anybody else or what they do; we only change what we do. Women can "play the offense line" & prevent something like this from happening or they can play the defense & stop it after it starts. This woman was trapped the second she shut the door. Unless she was armed; there was no defense to play. Game over.

Why is this so hard for some to understand? Prevention is not subservience; it's part of what is known as street smarts. It's survival.
Me too. This troubles me. Maybe they also thought they; "shouldn't have to, because that shouldn't happen..."

You don't give men much credit; do you. And parents even less. Even my opinion that; we've spent the last 50 years raising boys to be socially-neutered & now look where we are at... isn't the real issue here.

Women who do not understand that they are vulnerable will not be interested in being empowered. That's at least a part of the real issue.

So what. If they would have been there; she would be alive.
I give good men plenty of credit.

Sorry if some do not like facts. Men are more violent. Period. This is a problem, and we should all be asking why and what we can do about it, rather than arguing about Samantha's actions.

If men and women committed these types of crimes equally, then it would be a humanity problem, and a lot of people here arguing about what people can do to stay safe would have more of a point. But when about half of mankind commits FAR more violent and other crime, that's a curious pattern and in addition to recommending safety measures, we should be bothered by that discrepancy. Arguments like "clearly he's just crazy" aren't enough, we should not write off this behavior so easily.

And seriously? If her friends had been there, she'd be alive? Don't place any of the blame here on 21 year olds doing what all 21 years olds do. This shifting of blame is part of the problem. Her friends are NOT at fault. Samantha was smart to call an Uber, she just screwed up after.
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Old 04-03-2019, 07:08 PM
 
16,463 posts, read 9,578,058 times
Reputation: 27546
Well, I'm sure people thought Ted Bundy was a 'nice guy' too before he was eventually caught for his horrific crimes (like true crime writer Ann Rule, who worked at a suicide prevention call center with Ted and thought highly of him back then).

Coach: Man accused of killing University of South Carolina student is ‘not the Nate everyone knows and loves’

You can't necessarily fault the dad for thinking like this, I mean, what parent would want to be associated with a monster who just committed a horrific crime?

Nathaniel Rowland's parents: 'If you did it, you gonna pay the consequences'

Oh, and in reading various comments from different websites, it is quite apparent that many people do NOT properly and thoroughly verify their Uber drivers.
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Old 04-03-2019, 07:29 PM
 
12,232 posts, read 10,155,788 times
Reputation: 16866
Quote:
Originally Posted by Suburban_Guy View Post
Well, I'm sure people thought Ted Bundy was a 'nice guy' too before he was eventually caught for his horrific crimes (like true crime writer Ann Rule, who worked at a suicide prevention call center with Ted and thought highly of him back then).

Coach: Man accused of killing University of South Carolina student is ‘not the Nate everyone knows and loves’

You can't necessarily fault the dad for thinking like this, I mean, what parent would want to be associated with a monster who just committed a horrific crime?

Nathaniel Rowland's parents: 'If you did it, you gonna pay the consequences'

Oh, and in reading various comments from different websites, it is quite apparent that many people do NOT properly and thoroughly verify their Uber drivers.
Watching local news right now, they're interviewing random people on NYC streets about "what's my name?", a campaign starting in response to this incident to ask drivers what the customer's name is (the person they're there for), rather than saying, as someone interviewed said she would always say, "are you here for [first name]?" The existence of this campaign and it being on the news shows that a lot of people probably don't vet the cars/drivers very well, unsurprisingly. As someone who goes out in crowded, popular places like Hoboken, I see a TON of Ubers around on weekend nights, lots of drunk people, sometimes some confusion.

People get complacent, it's only natural. They won't realistically be on guard 24/7, despite what many posters here would suggest. Months or even years pass without hearing stories like this, and people get comfortable. They don't think that someone would let them get into a car when they're not even an Uber driver, they don't think that someone, Uber driver or not, is going to randomly kill them for no reason. No one irl is as perfect as they act on the internet. Like someone else said, people want to convince themselves that something like this won't happen to them. Samantha was incredibly unlucky; the odds of this exact situation happening really aren't that high. Most people would likely yell at some young woman trying to randomly get into their car, or be confused and tell her to get out, not use it as a chance to kill her.

It's easy after an incident like this to claim that you ALWAYS check the license plate of the Uber, or that you are ALWAYS aware of your surroundings and never let your guard down. I don't buy it, no one is perfect. People will generally start being more careful now with Ubers/Lyfts, but it won't last forever. They'll forget about this story eventually. People will never stop making mistakes that can get them hurt or killed, we're all human and we make mistakes. We're not "on" 24/7. It's one reason why I think it's so important to examine why acts of violence like this occur in the first place and how we can maybe try to stop them on the offenders' end before they even occur. Murdering someone like this otoh is not a mistake.
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