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Old 04-18-2019, 08:46 AM
 
660 posts, read 196,699 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by c charlie View Post
As Notre Dame burned, people saw Jesus in the flames (source HuffPost, today 18 April)
I think 99% of people would agree with your post. It's only social media looking for clink bait or likes.
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Old 04-18-2019, 08:59 AM
 
Location: NJ
10,274 posts, read 21,019,002 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M3 Mitch View Post
It seems that a lot of rich people, in France or not, are offering up considerable pledges to finance reconstruction. So the French taxpayer may not be on the hook for much of it.



I am a bit amazed that apparently that wooden roof did not get retrofitted with some sort of sprinkler system, and/or some sort of fire retardant treatment. Perhaps this is a wake-up call to people responsible for other similar old buildings.



The fire was bad enough, but it could have been worse.
I agree. There were smoke alarms but no sprinkler systems? I do hope that this changes every old building after the fire.

I do not understand why the French government doesn't charge the church something for rent which could have been put in an account to use to do upgrades or repairs to the church. What does the church(es) do with all the money they raise during services?

Things are way different in the US with churches owning their own buildings or renting them from someone.


Quote:
Originally Posted by c charlie View Post
As Notre Dame burned, people saw Jesus in the flames (source HuffPost, today 18 April)

Well of course they did. Just as we see bunny rabbits in clouds, or Jesus on a burnt pice of toast. Or indeed believe conspiracy theories and/or aliens.

The effect is dues to the human need for meaning and order. It is hard wired and has(had) a definite survival reason. it's called PAREIDOLIA.

"Pareidolia (/pærɪˈdoʊliə/ parr-i-DOH-lee-ə) is the tendency to interpret a vague stimulus as something known to the observer, such as seeing shapes in clouds, seeing faces in inanimate objects or abstract patterns, or hearing hidden messages in music.

Common examples are perceived images of animals, faces, or objects in cloud formations, the Man in the Moon, the Moon rabbit, hidden messages in recorded music played in reverse or at higher- or lower-than-normal speeds, and hearing indistinct voices in random noise such as that produced by air conditioners or fans.[1]

A notable example of pareidolia occurred in 1877, when photos taken through a telescope of the surface of Mars that turned up what looked faintly like straight lines, which were then interpreted by some as canals. It was theorized that the canals were possibly created by sentient beings. This created a sensation. In the next few years better photographic techniques and stronger telescopes were developed and applied, which resulted in new images in which the faint lines disappeared, and the canal theory was debunked as an example of pareidolia.[2][3]"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pareidolia

People Claim To See Jesus In Flames Engulfing Notre Dame Cathedral Some people wondered: If that was Jesus in the flames, what message was he sending?
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Old 04-18-2019, 11:03 AM
 
Location: Oregon Coast
4,797 posts, read 1,895,982 times
Reputation: 6230
Quote:
Originally Posted by c charlie View Post
As Notre Dame burned, people saw Jesus in the flames (source HuffPost, today 18 April)

Well of course they did. Just as we see bunny rabbits in clouds, or Jesus on a burnt pice of toast. Or indeed believe conspiracy theories and/or aliens.

The effect is dues to the human need for meaning and order. It is hard wired and has(had) a definite survival reason. it's called PAREIDOLIA.

"Pareidolia (/pærɪˈdoʊliə/ parr-i-DOH-lee-ə) is the tendency to interpret a vague stimulus as something known to the observer, such as seeing shapes in clouds, seeing faces in inanimate objects or abstract patterns, or hearing hidden messages in music.

Common examples are perceived images of animals, faces, or objects in cloud formations, the Man in the Moon, the Moon rabbit, hidden messages in recorded music played in reverse or at higher- or lower-than-normal speeds, and hearing indistinct voices in random noise such as that produced by air conditioners or fans.[1]

A notable example of pareidolia occurred in 1877, when photos taken through a telescope of the surface of Mars that turned up what looked faintly like straight lines, which were then interpreted by some as canals. It was theorized that the canals were possibly created by sentient beings. This created a sensation. In the next few years better photographic techniques and stronger telescopes were developed and applied, which resulted in new images in which the faint lines disappeared, and the canal theory was debunked as an example of pareidolia.[2][3]"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pareidolia
Yeah, that was laughable. Another news clip I saw was still insisting that the towers where just minutes away from collapse when the firefighters got the fire put out. Apparently some people are not educated enough to know that stone doesn't burn. The amount of fake news that the news media puts out is astonishing. But I guess people like being lied to.

The true story: The modern roof on an 800 year old cathedral caught fire and burned. Repair work will start soon, and in a few years the building will be as good as new. End of story. But that story is not going to get clicks, so it's not going to be reported.
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Old 04-18-2019, 01:54 PM
 
19,920 posts, read 13,113,746 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roselvr View Post
I agree. There were smoke alarms but no sprinkler systems? I do hope that this changes every old building after the fire.

I do not understand why the French government doesn't charge the church something for rent which could have been put in an account to use to do upgrades or repairs to the church. What does the church(es) do with all the money they raise during services?

Things are way different in the US with churches owning their own buildings or renting them from someone.





People Claim To See Jesus In Flames Engulfing Notre Dame Cathedral Some people wondered: If that was Jesus in the flames, what message was he sending?


You make it sound like the RC church and other faiths willingly gave their property to the French government, that is not the case at all.


Again:


https://www.museeprotestant.org/en/n...e-law-of-1905/


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1905_F..._and_the_State


https://www.nytimes.com/2015/02/06/w...w-reality.html


Effectively houses of worship, convents, abbeys, monastaries, etc.. are all state property. French government does allow unused or little used churches or whatever to be hold all sort of events from concerts or whatever. But otherwise entrance is free for the most part.


This is as it should be when you consider the *huge* tax burden France imposes upon its citizens/residents.
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Old 04-18-2019, 02:30 PM
 
11,656 posts, read 4,825,073 times
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France owns all churches built before 1905 due to secular laws passed. Their relationship with the Roman Catholic Church and Notre Dame is to continue to allow the church to be used with the agreement the Catholic Church takes care of the basic maintenance and pays all employees involved with the upkeep and security. There is no rental agreement nor a time limit on the agreement.
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Old 04-18-2019, 06:00 PM
 
Location: South Australia
377 posts, read 59,388 times
Reputation: 770
I read in Huff post yesterday about a pair of French billionaires competing over who will donate the most to the rebuilding effort.

One started by pledging 100 million Euros (about $US 113 million).The other immediately responded with a 200 million Euro pledge, ain't it ain't over yet. It's all about their competition.


Dos this reflect the crass materialism of our world, in which things matter more than people,? Or perhaps just the gauche, unattractive behaviour of a pair of very wealthy men?
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Old 04-18-2019, 06:33 PM
 
11,656 posts, read 4,825,073 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by c charlie View Post
I read in Huff post yesterday about a pair of French billionaires competing over who will donate the most to the rebuilding effort.

One started by pledging 100 million Euros (about $US 113 million).The other immediately responded with a 200 million Euro pledge, ain't it ain't over yet. It's all about their competition.


Dos this reflect the crass materialism of our world, in which things matter more than people,? Or perhaps just the gauche, unattractive behaviour of a pair of very wealthy men?
Well it's their money and they are entitled to spend it as they like. Being in France, Lord only knows how much taxes they each pay every year. Perhaps they see it as a patriotic contribution the country of France itself since the church is a beloved national monument and many French people and others all over the world are heart broken as to what has happened. Perhaps they see it as being able to leave their legacy in this manner to the French people. Good for them.
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Old 04-18-2019, 09:21 PM
 
19,920 posts, read 13,113,746 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by c charlie View Post
I read in Huff post yesterday about a pair of French billionaires competing over who will donate the most to the rebuilding effort.

One started by pledging 100 million Euros (about $US 113 million).The other immediately responded with a 200 million Euro pledge, ain't it ain't over yet. It's all about their competition.


Dos this reflect the crass materialism of our world, in which things matter more than people,? Or perhaps just the gauche, unattractive behaviour of a pair of very wealthy men?

For your information this "pissing contest" you seem to depict isn't over nor confined to just M. Francois-Henri Pinault and his business rival M. Bernard Arnault. The Bettencourt Meyers family (more money than God and owners of L' Oreal), and M. Patrick Pouyanne (Total Oil) have pledged substantial sums. This comes on top of funds from a vast and still growing number of companies and wealthy individuals both from within France, Europe, but rest of world as well. All this before the embers have even cooled. Likely far more will be raised in coming months.




What is interesting is both M. Pinault and M. Arnault are Jewish; something that has not gone unnoticed in both Jewish press and elsewhere. As for the rest of your observations the two men have long been rivals in business, which is neither unheard of nor unusual for titans of industry. Heck such rivalry/competitiveness is known on trading floors, boardrooms and other such places where BSD fetch up.


Being as all this may will give you the chattering classes have noticed all this money flowing to rebuilding Notre-Dame. This while causes they favor and or feel deserve more urgent attention aren't receiving funding on same level.


https://www.nytimes.com/2019/04/17/w...donations.html


https://www.washingtonpost.com/world...=.09d61cd3f081


Bottom line is people are perfectly free to chose what charity they will support. It is their money after all.
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Old 04-20-2019, 02:22 AM
 
1,258 posts, read 2,125,220 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BugsyPal View Post
What is interesting is both M. Pinault and M. Arnault are Jewish; something that has not gone unnoticed in both Jewish press and elsewhere.

M. Pinault or M. Arnault are not Jewish, I don't know where did you find this.

Both are owner of big luxury conglomerates (LVMH and Kering) whose notoriety goes with a certain image of Paris.
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Old 04-20-2019, 02:53 AM
 
19,920 posts, read 13,113,746 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Minato ku View Post

M. Pinault or M. Arnault are not Jewish, I don't know where did you find this.

Both are owner of big luxury conglomerates (LVMH and Kering) whose notoriety goes with a certain image of Paris.
Eariler online articles said both families were; they've since retracted/corrected that statement.


https://forward.com/schmooze/422747/...ng-to-rebuild/
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