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Old 08-18-2019, 06:11 PM
 
Location: Coastal New Jersey
56,888 posts, read 55,227,367 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nell Plotts View Post
Not Without My Daughter: Years ago I met the woman in the park mentioned in that book at a grocery store. We briefly discussed Betty's situation. During those years many Iranian men attended the local university.

The daughter has written a book presenting her point of view, she declined to visit her father or his family even as an adult. The father, Dr. Mahmoody, has since passed away.
I didn't know he had died.

He did a documentary from his point of view, and for some reason, I think it was done by a Scandinavian filmmaker. It was called "Without My Daughter". I wanted to watch it if it had subtitles.
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Old 08-18-2019, 06:20 PM
 
21,167 posts, read 16,916,015 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Javacoffee View Post
Those 35,000 are mostly construction and oil workers, not teachers.
Iím quite sure she didnít go over there and start teaching anything controversial. Shes not an activist or anything. She might teach math or English, Iím sure itís not political science or gender studies lol. Her western-ness came into play during a court custody case, not because people complained about her. The strict courts there just think a child of a Saudi citizen would be better raised by the dad who shares their strict views s d culture. I donít agree, but it doesnít make sense to extrapolate that they think sheís some devil woman who shouldnít have been let in to teach.
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Old 08-18-2019, 06:25 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Honeycrisp View Post
Thx for reminding me of the story, ocnjgirl, the man's (father's) name was David Goldman from Tinton Falls NJ, the boy was Sean - thankfully the courts got it right and after 5 long years, he was able to reunite w/ his son, much to his former in-law's dismay (in the meantime, the boy's mother died during childbirth, I cant remember if he lived w/ the stepfather or his maternal grandparents in Brazil). I think the boy was about 9 and he had limited supervised visitation w/ the father (I think one time he went there and the courts ruled against him, he wasnt able to see him at all during that trip there). My heart went out to the father and am so glad there was a happy ending (I think the maternal grandparents were allowed limited supervised visitation in his country only but they didnt take advantage of that and fought the ruling for a while, I think both have since passed on).
Yes, thatís right thanks for reminding me. The man had to in-brainwash the child too as the in-laws made him afraid of the dad. He did not want to come back here at first if I recall, but a few months later I saw an update on Today and they were bonded again and happy.
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Old 08-18-2019, 07:23 PM
 
Location: Mid-Atlantic
25,356 posts, read 24,256,376 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Javacoffee View Post
Yes, I can and do feel sorry for her, ignorance and all. This stuff gives me chills. I am so thankful to be born in America. Never in a million years would I visit or move to Saudi Arabia. I certainly wouldn't birth or drag a child over there.

She moved there to teach in a university, but apparently wasn't smart enough to comprehend the danger? How smart can she be?

You would think that Saudi Arabia would meet with her beforehand to make sure she wouldn't teach her "western ways" in their university.

Not Without My Daughter was a great movie and teaching tool, if you ask me.
Her husband should have been teaching her what's required and how to live in The Kingdom. He failed to do that, and as expected, she is the one being punished. I'm sorry to hear that this is still happening, but I'm not surprised.
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Old 08-18-2019, 07:30 PM
 
21,167 posts, read 16,916,015 times
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Originally Posted by Gerania View Post
Her husband should have been teaching her what's required and how to live in The Kingdom. He failed to do that, and as expected, she is the one being punished. I'm sorry to hear that this is still happening, but I'm not surprised.
I don’t think you read it right. She and the husband divorced, the court gave ex-husband custody because she doesn’t follow traditional Saudi religion and culture and he does. No matter what he taught her (which doesn’t make sense in this context), I can guarantee the court there would rule in favor of a man over a woman, and a Saudi citizen over an ex-pat.

People seem to think the kid was snatched from her on the street cause she was wearing shorts or something. It was a divorce custody battle.
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Old 08-18-2019, 07:51 PM
 
1,569 posts, read 309,655 times
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Well she was still living the western lifestyle and posting it all to social media which led to her losing her kid.

You're a woman in a ME country and you attended Burning Man and posted that on the internet ...geeze.

I feel sorry for her but it seems she did continue to live a western life style.
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Old 08-18-2019, 10:26 PM
 
21,167 posts, read 16,916,015 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TMSRetired View Post
Well she was still living the western lifestyle and posting it all to social media which led to her losing her kid.

You're a woman in a ME country and you attended Burning Man and posted that on the internet ...geeze.

I feel sorry for her but it seems she did continue to live a western life style.
She would not have gotten custody no matter what she did. They have s. Edged interest in Saudi kids growing up indocrinated the way they want their citizens to be. Men have more rights and higher standing, citizens have more rights than spouses. I donít think she brought anything on that wouldnít have happened anyway. Why is it so important to blame her??
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Old 08-18-2019, 10:28 PM
 
1,309 posts, read 1,437,216 times
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In general Saudi Arabia is very tolerant of Westerners that move there for work. I had an uncle who moved there to work on contract as a doctor. He stayed there for over 15 years. In fact, both of his kids have dual citizenship and are Saudi citizens because they were born there. They stayed in a residential development that was specifically for foreigners. This was by choice. They could have lived anywhere in the country. But they stayed there because when you are a foreigner living there for work and living in these "foreigner designated" residential areas; there is an unwritten understanding that you aren't going to be scrutinized as intensely as others in terms of adhering to Islamic laws. As long as you aren't doing blatantly disrespectful things as interpreted by the Islamic laws of the country, you will be left alone. If this woman was in Saudi Arabia for work and wasn't married to a Saudi man; none of what she did would have even been noticed much less ending up in court.

However, when you move to that country to live like the locals the "standards of conduct" which you must adhere to are vastly different and insane in comparison to the USA. Unfortunately, for this woman she moved there as a wife of a Saudi man. This is the defining factor for why she is in this situation. When you are viewed as a "local woman" in Saudi, your rights are very limited. While I feel bad for the situation she is in, she should have known better. When you are moving to a country where not so long ago women were not even allowed to drive; you should probably do some in depth research into other laws which may potentially put you into dire situations.
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Old 08-18-2019, 10:41 PM
 
Location: Mid-Atlantic
25,356 posts, read 24,256,376 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ocnjgirl View Post
I donít think you read it right. She and the husband divorced, the court gave ex-husband custody because she doesnít follow traditional Saudi religion and culture and he does. No matter what he taught her (which doesnít make sense in this context), I can guarantee the court there would rule in favor of a man over a woman, and a Saudi citizen over an ex-pat.

People seem to think the kid was snatched from her on the street cause she was wearing shorts or something. It was a divorce custody battle.
They would still most likely rule in his favor, but as her husband, he was responsible for "controlling" her. He did not teach her what she needed to know about living there. Her failure is his. Even after divorce.

My eldest brother learned to speak Arabic (just one) in his early 20s when he served in the Peace Corps. He spent most his working life, career, in the Middle East.

He lived in Saudi Arabia for years. If you're reasonably intelligent, you figure it out pretty quickly.
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Old 08-19-2019, 06:43 AM
 
21,167 posts, read 16,916,015 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gerania View Post
They would still most likely rule in his favor, but as her husband, he was responsible for "controlling" her. He did not teach her what she needed to know about living there. Her failure is his. Even after divorce.

My eldest brother learned to speak Arabic (just one) in his early 20s when he served in the Peace Corps. He spent most his working life, career, in the Middle East.

He lived in Saudi Arabia for years. If you're reasonably intelligent, you figure it out pretty quickly.
So you think if he “controlled her better” she’d have been granted custody? Don’t you understand her being “too Western” WAS the ex and his lawyers argument for why he should get custody?? It wasn’t brought up because the courts started looking through her social media, it’s because husband and his lawyer said “Look how western she is, Mr. husband is far better choice to raise child in traditional ways.”

In American court a woman might lose custody cause dad and his lawyer might say she’s too focused on dating, or she drinks, or whatever...when the husband wins custody people don’t post about how the husband failed her. This story is no different than any story any day in any family court. The only thing that’s triggering people to find it different than any other custody scenario is the use of the word westernized in the custody ruling.

Last edited by ocnjgirl; 08-19-2019 at 07:11 AM..
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