U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Current Events
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
 
 
Old 08-25-2019, 07:50 PM
 
21,276 posts, read 16,967,427 times
Reputation: 39728

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by Petunia 100 View Post
It also said they were off-duty.
Right but that does not mean he didnít have the car. Why would the police chief have talked about the unit possibly malfunctioning in this case if he didnít have the car that was equipped with it?
Quick reply to this message

 
Old 08-25-2019, 07:50 PM
 
Location: So Cal
14,895 posts, read 10,906,932 times
Reputation: 14510
Quote:
Originally Posted by ocnjgirl View Post
I need to point out if it wasnít a car equipped with a a temperature control system it would be 100% wrong to leave an animal in a car in cold or hot temps and the person who does should be banned from owning pets and have a criminal penalty. Just this case I feel he and the other officers do this a lot, depending on the technology and up to now the system had always worked well. The fact you think animals are tools does not change the fact that the majority of the country disagrees with you and penalties for animal cruelty are being strengthened across the country. Yours is the outlier opinion.
I mentioned this in the "Another Parent Leaves Child in Hot Car" thread. Utilize the technology, but don't count on it.
Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-25-2019, 07:57 PM
 
9,135 posts, read 5,260,030 times
Reputation: 10381
Quote:
Originally Posted by ocnjgirl View Post
Right but that does not mean he didn’t have the car. Why would the police chief have talked about the unit possibly malfunctioning in this case if he didn’t have the car that was equipped with it?
It doesn't matter. If he is off duty, then he does not need to take the dog with him to wherever he was going, especially knowing that the dog would be left in the car for an extended amount of time. That's just common sense and responsible care of an animal.

ETA: Oh, and the Chief of the Department is obviously going to point out anything that puts his officer in a better light. That's part of the job of being a dept. head.

If the officer had been on duty, I would completely agree that it was not his fault.
Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-25-2019, 07:58 PM
 
21,276 posts, read 16,967,427 times
Reputation: 39728
Quote:
Originally Posted by SeaOfGrass View Post
I mentioned this in the "Another Parent Leaves Child in Hot Car" thread. Utilize the technology, but don't count on it.
Well itís always easy to Monday morning quarterback. Itís like saying parents of babies should set their alarms for every hour in case the baby monitor stops working. They probably do in the beginning, but as the baby goes through the months without problems, people naturally relax. The article said all the k9 officers are now getting their equipment checked, which would lead me to believe they all use it which means they all leave their dogs in the car at times. Again as many officers and many dogs go through months and years with the equipment never malfunctioning and the dogs always fine, it is natural to let down your guard. People donít remain on high alert over long periods of doing the same thing with no adverse results. We werenít designed that way.
Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-25-2019, 08:00 PM
 
21,276 posts, read 16,967,427 times
Reputation: 39728
Quote:
Originally Posted by Petunia 100 View Post
It doesn't matter. If he is off duty, then he does not need to take the dog with him to wherever he was going, especially knowing that the dog would be left in the car for an extended amount of time. That's just common sense and responsible care of an animal.
Well Iím not going to speculate and then offer an opinion based on that. I have no idea where he was or why he had the dog. If we find out, Iíll offer an opinion on whether or not I think he should have had the dog with him.
Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-25-2019, 08:53 PM
 
Location: So Cal
14,895 posts, read 10,906,932 times
Reputation: 14510
Quote:
Originally Posted by SeaOfGrass View Post
Okay, here comes the irritating animal lover. I'm not attacking you, TinaTwo. You obviously have concern for these dogs. But just the fact that the dog might have to sit in the car for two hours ****** me off. I'm tired of living creatures being "utilized" for our benefit without necessarily seeing to their innate needs.

Even if the temperature was fine and the dog wasn't suffering any physical trauma, the fact that they have to sit there in the car waiting for "their" human to show back up, they're just on edge the whole time. Have you ever seen a dog waiting in a car for their owner to come out of a store? They're just there. Staring. Waiting. Sometimes anxious. They don't know you're just picking up a loaf of bread. In the best situation, they're bored. And two hours is a looong time to just sit there. Try doing it sometime. Humans don't have to sit for two hours without any stimulation, smart phones and all. Anyway...

Sorry. Rant over.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ocnjgirl View Post
I need to point out if it wasnít a car equipped with a a temperature control system it would be 100% wrong to leave an animal in a car in cold or hot temps and the person who does should be banned from owning pets and have a criminal penalty. Just this case I feel he and the other officers do this a lot, depending on the technology and up to now the system had always worked well. The fact you think animals are tools does not change the fact that the majority of the country disagrees with you and penalties for animal cruelty are being strengthened across the country. Yours is the outlier opinion.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SeaOfGrass View Post
I mentioned this in the "Another Parent Leaves Child in Hot Car" thread. Utilize the technology, but don't count on it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ocnjgirl View Post
Well itís always easy to Monday morning quarterback. Itís like saying parents of babies should set their alarms for every hour in case the baby monitor stops working. They probably do in the beginning, but as the baby goes through the months without problems, people naturally relax. The article said all the k9 officers are now getting their equipment checked, which would lead me to believe they all use it which means they all leave their dogs in the car at times. Again as many officers and many dogs go through months and years with the equipment never malfunctioning and the dogs always fine, it is natural to let down your guard. People donít remain on high alert over long periods of doing the same thing with no adverse results. We werenít designed that way.
I'm kind of confused now. I'm not sure if you agree with me or not.

All I'm saying is that, whether human or animal, these are living, breathing creatures, who feel suffering, pain, anxiety, not to mention death, for God's sake. It's not about Monday-morning quarterbacking. If you have someone relying on you for their care, you don't get lax on it, speaking "realistically." Like I posted a while back, if something living is in the car with me, I "feel" it the whole time. I'm aware of them. I'm responsible for them.

I'm listening to all these parents who had these awful incidents happen, and I'm trying to understand. The last thing I want to do is tromp on a parent who is miserably grieving their child who died at their (the parent(s)') own hands.

I just don't like leaving an animal in a car unattended.
Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-25-2019, 09:20 PM
 
666 posts, read 200,933 times
Reputation: 1671
Sea, I totally agree with you and A/c or not a dog shouldn’t be in a car for 8 hours with no pee or water breaks. No excuse when off duty. I am always aware if a child or dog is in my car.
Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-26-2019, 12:45 AM
Status: "Proud American, Always and Forever" (set 23 days ago)
 
Location: DMV Area/NYC/Honolulu
12,655 posts, read 6,564,295 times
Reputation: 12218
Even if this was due to a failure of the k-9 AC system, I wonder if department policy still required the officer to check up on the dog every so often (wouldn't shock me if this was the case).
Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-26-2019, 04:04 AM
 
1,311 posts, read 1,440,097 times
Reputation: 2631
Quote:
Originally Posted by ocnjgirl View Post
Well it’s always easy to Monday morning quarterback. It’s like saying parents of babies should set their alarms for every hour in case the baby monitor stops working. They probably do in the beginning, but as the baby goes through the months without problems, people naturally relax. The article said all the k9 officers are now getting their equipment checked, which would lead me to believe they all use it which means they all leave their dogs in the car at times. Again as many officers and many dogs go through months and years with the equipment never malfunctioning and the dogs always fine, it is natural to let down your guard. People don’t remain on high alert over long periods of doing the same thing with no adverse results. We weren’t designed that way.
Speaking from experience let me shed some light on this situation. I will try to be as objective as I can and try to give plausible scenarios from both aspects of whether the officer was at fault or not. First let me address the part in bold. The primary reason police departments have invested in equipment to monitor temperature inside K9 patrol vehicles is to ensure the dog's welfare in ON DUTY situations. I capitalized the "on duty" part because many readers pointed out that the officer was off duty when the death occurred.

There are many calls a K9 officer will respond to that doesn't require the use of a police dog. It would be unreasonable for the department to expect him to be mindful of the dog's welfare while simultaneously dealing with life or death situations. Therefore, the alert system is utilized in order for the officer to be more effective on duty by removing one additional factor he will not have to deal with. However, just because the system is primarily for on duty use doesn't mean there can't be situations where the officer cannot leave the dog in the vehicle off duty. Still, most departments will advise K9 officers to minimize the time their dog is in the vehicle while off duty. This is usually part of most departments K9 handler training. Usually most off duty situations where its reasonable to leave the dog in the car involve scenarios that are in conjunction with the officer's shift. For example:

1. An officer may go grocery shopping, have a doctors appointment etc. before or after their shift. It may be impractical to go home first. Therefore, they will leave the dog in the car while running these errands.

2.An officer may leave the dog in his vehicle while on a hour break in the middle of his shift.

Besides, the scenarios above most officers who think about the welfare of their dog go out of their way to minimize the time their dog is in the car. If the officer in this story was in scenario #1 or #2 then this was an unfortunate accident which cant be blamed on the officer. However, some officers see their dog as "another tool" instead of a living being. These officers don't really care too much about the welfare of their dog. If the officer in the story is one of those; then he probably had the dog in the car for a reason that doesn't involve #1 or #2. In that case he is 100% at fault for the death of the dog.

My opinion based on all the officers I know is that the officer was 100% at fault. Officers that don't think of their dog as "a tool" literally treat their K9 partner as they would treat a human partner. Meaning even with the "alert system" and even if they were doing something involving #1 or #2 they would still physically check on their dog every once in a while (if it was taking a long time to run their errand) to ensure that the dog was ok.
Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-26-2019, 06:28 AM
 
21,276 posts, read 16,967,427 times
Reputation: 39728
Quote:
Originally Posted by SeaOfGrass View Post
I'm kind of confused now. I'm not sure if you agree with me or not.

All I'm saying is that, whether human or animal, these are living, breathing creatures, who feel suffering, pain, anxiety, not to mention death, for God's sake. It's not about Monday-morning quarterbacking. If you have someone relying on you for their care, you don't get lax on it, speaking "realistically." Like I posted a while back, if something living is in the car with me, I "feel" it the whole time. I'm aware of them. I'm responsible for them.

I'm listening to all these parents who had these awful incidents happen, and I'm trying to understand. The last thing I want to do is tromp on a parent who is miserably grieving their child who died at their (the parent(s)') own hands.

I just don't like leaving an animal in a car unattended.
I think I misunderstood your first post, I apologize.
Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


 

Quick Reply
Message:
Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Current Events
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2019, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top