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Old 09-01-2019, 12:02 PM
 
21,373 posts, read 17,010,739 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ClaraC View Post
In Texas, the facilities are run by MHMR, which is Mental Health/Mental Retardation, so both populations were affected by the Lelz lawsuit.

So there was the state school (for those with Mental Retardation, as it was called) and the state hospital, for people with mental illness.

Both facilities were destined to close due to the lawsuit, although one of them (I think the hospital?) still has a few, maybe 3, patients so they remain open until those patients pass on.

I read several analysis of the court case, and no aspect of it addressed the mentally ill, only the mentally handicapped. They refer repeatedly to the "Plaintiff class" as the developmentally disabled, and none mentions state mental hospitals. Although I agree the lawsuit may have been a push in the direction and made them maybe speed it up. I object though to trying to lump them into the same category. Just because the same department is in charge of both does not mean they are interchangeable.



In any case, they would have closed anyway when Reagan deinstitutionalized the mentally ill at the Federal level, it effectively caused closures on a massive scale in every state, because states still depended on Federal funds, Medicare, Medicaid, etc. for reimbursement.



Regardless I don't know if people realize that re-opening them would require a significant expansion of Medicaid and that these hospitals would be almost totally dependent on taxpayers to pick up the massive costs, as most people that severely mentally ill are not going to have jobs or insurance (and private insurance would probably only pay for a few days anyway). With the massive debt we have racked up with the tax cuts to the rich and corporate America, I don't see it happening anytime soon.
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Old 09-01-2019, 01:17 PM
 
10,854 posts, read 4,404,727 times
Reputation: 27406
Quote:
Originally Posted by ocnjgirl View Post
I read several analysis of the court case, and no aspect of it addressed the mentally ill, only the mentally handicapped. They refer repeatedly to the "Plaintiff class" as the developmentally disabled, and none mentions state mental hospitals. Although I agree the lawsuit may have been a push in the direction and made them maybe speed it up. I object though to trying to lump them into the same category. Just because the same department is in charge of both does not mean they are interchangeable.



In any case, they would have closed anyway when Reagan deinstitutionalized the mentally ill at the Federal level, it effectively caused closures on a massive scale in every state, because states still depended on Federal funds, Medicare, Medicaid, etc. for reimbursement.



Regardless I don't know if people realize that re-opening them would require a significant expansion of Medicaid and that these hospitals would be almost totally dependent on taxpayers to pick up the massive costs, as most people that severely mentally ill are not going to have jobs or insurance (and private insurance would probably only pay for a few days anyway). With the massive debt we have racked up with the tax cuts to the rich and corporate America, I don't see it happening anytime soon.
Hmmm. I'm not sure how this conversation got turned around.

The thought came up that we should still have mental institutions to warehouse the mentally ill.

And then someone mockingly said mental institutions were cruelllllll.

I countered with well, they were cruel, and went on to say that in Texas mental institutions were closed due to the Lelz Lawsuit that required "least restrictive environment" for services to people (those served by our system, MHMR).

I'm not quite sure why you think I'm lumping people with intellectual disabilities with those with mental illness, or why this conversations keeps going.

I stand by what I said. Mental institutions in Texas were closed due to fall out from the Lelz lawsuit.

And I don't have to look that up on the internet. I lived it at the time.
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Old 09-01-2019, 01:29 PM
Status: "cruel summer" (set 24 days ago)
 
Location: The New England part of Ohio
18,786 posts, read 23,532,348 times
Reputation: 49308
Quote:
Originally Posted by duke944 View Post
The family is saying he was a great guy who worked with kids, went to church yada yada yada. Doesn't sound like a well thought out murder plot to me.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...peaks-out.html
They're always great guys who go to church, quiet neighbors, you know the drill.
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Old 09-01-2019, 01:29 PM
 
21,373 posts, read 17,010,739 times
Reputation: 39844
Quote:
Originally Posted by ClaraC View Post
Hmmm. I'm not sure how this conversation got turned around.

The thought came up that we should still have mental institutions to warehouse the mentally ill.

And then someone mockingly said mental institutions were cruelllllll.

I countered with well, they were cruel, and went on to say that in Texas mental institutions were closed due to the Lelz Lawsuit that required "least restrictive environment" for services to people (those served by our system, MHMR).

I'm not quite sure why you think I'm lumping people with intellectual disabilities with those with mental illness, or why this conversations keeps going.

I stand by what I said. Mental institutions in Texas were closed due to fall out from the Lelz lawsuit.

And I don't have to look that up on the internet. I lived it at the time.

Actually it was me who responded to the poster, stating Reagan closed the institutions at the Federal level and that it was for financial reasons, not related to cruelty. Then you responded to me with the Texas stuff. What I mainly objected to was your writing "mentally ill/intellectually disabled" as if they are the same. It made it sound as if you thought intellectually disabled and mentally ill were housed in the same place. Intellectually disabled did not live in hospitals, they lived in residential facilities for people with intellectual disabilities. And you made it sound like that case addressed mental hospitals within the case, it did not, it only addressed residential facilities for the intellectually disabled. It may have had an after effect of closing mental hospitals but they weren't closed because anyone's parents sued to have mental hospitals closed.


I just think it's unfair to try to lump them together and I was offended by that. I'm sure you were just trying to make the story shorter, so sorry.
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Old 09-01-2019, 01:33 PM
 
21,373 posts, read 17,010,739 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sheena12 View Post
They're always great guys who go to church, quiet neighbors, you know the drill.

I read he had been having problems with mental illness, in any case. Neighbors don't know what people's real lives were like.


"A relative exclusively told DailyMail.com that Matthew has been struggling with mental illness and 'came to a breaking point.'
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Old 09-01-2019, 03:06 PM
 
11,680 posts, read 6,004,478 times
Reputation: 1720
Quote:
Originally Posted by ocnjgirl View Post
I read he had been having problems with mental illness, in any case. Neighbors don't know what people's real lives were like.


"A relative exclusively told DailyMail.com that Matthew has been struggling with mental illness and 'came to a breaking point.'
He had his wits well enough together to protect his life.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Df9dW6ASbLs
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Old 09-01-2019, 03:09 PM
 
Location: colorado springs, CO
5,226 posts, read 2,410,900 times
Reputation: 17364
Quote:
Originally Posted by ocnjgirl View Post
I read he had been having problems with mental illness, in any case. Neighbors don't know what people's real lives were like.


"A relative exclusively told DailyMail.com that Matthew has been struggling with mental illness and 'came to a breaking point.'
I read somewhere that the neighbor actually was his aunt. I can't find hardly anything out on this one.
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Old 09-01-2019, 03:51 PM
 
190 posts, read 59,284 times
Reputation: 617
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hyperthetic View Post
He had his wits well enough together to protect his life.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Df9dW6ASbLs


A person suffering from a mental illness....leading to a psychotic break does not always mean they are catatonic and non functioning. You watch too many movies. They can be exhibiting a multitude of symptoms all manifesting themselves in different ways to different degrees.

They can be very high functioning but the information their brain is receiving is being processed inaccurately. What they are hearing, seeing or thinking is not factual and accurate.

Because this kid fled is absolutely no indication of his level of sanity or how his brain was functioning at the time. It gives us clues, but that is all. A psychotic and paranoid break can have the mentally ill individual thinking someone is out to get them, beat them up or kill them. They respond accordingly to how their mind is functioning at that time.

Family members and friends are NOT immune from their loved one having bad thoughts about them. They can be perceived as more of a threat than a stranger. This boy had a history of illness and was in the right age group where many healthy, smart and productive youth are stricken through no fault of their own.

My condolences and sympathy to all involved in this tragic case.
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Old 09-01-2019, 05:03 PM
 
11,680 posts, read 6,004,478 times
Reputation: 1720
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr_Geek View Post
Does that cop chasing him in the video still have a job? Chasing a naked, unarmed man, who is wanted for a triple murder and the cop is running the other direction.
Mighta thought the runner was a hoe moe.
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Old 09-01-2019, 05:40 PM
 
21,373 posts, read 17,010,739 times
Reputation: 39844
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hyperthetic View Post
He had his wits well enough together to protect his life.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Df9dW6ASbLs

That doesn't mean anything. Obviously he had some kind of breakdown at the time, why else knock on his aunts door, punch her in the arm before running home to murder his family? Why strip his clothes off, why try to choke the groundskeeper at the church?
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