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Old 08-31-2019, 07:46 AM
 
Location: SW Florida
10,848 posts, read 5,097,064 times
Reputation: 22627

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I guess I was a nave teenager because I didn't even know what oral sex was at age 16 much less performing it on video. The people that are prosecuting her have no common sense, however it appears common sense isn't all that common anymore.
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Old 08-31-2019, 07:51 AM
 
Location: North Carolina
3,044 posts, read 2,108,322 times
Reputation: 6223
Quote:
Originally Posted by katharsis View Post
Good. I hope this kind of ruling becomes widespread.

It is widely accepted that people (not just kids) often don't think about ramifications. This girl was putting herself into danger of being harassed and having a "bad reputation" for her remaining years at whatever high school she was attending. Sometimes adults must step in and save them from themselves.

I am sorry that this girl was made to be the example, though -- but maybe it will serve as a warning to others just like someone who was killed because s/he texting while driving -- or because the driver who killed her or him was.
No. The court system does not need to be intervening in every incident of reckless judgment on the part of a 16 year old that leads to high school drama. That's an asinine idea.

Instead of only having consequences that young people typically have when they do something foolish like this, we're involving the court system in things like this? You think that's a good idea?

We're not talking about a 16 year old robbing a convenience store at gunpoint. So now we're introducing a host of problems that a criminal charge brings (depending on the state) and the inability to secure a job, educational attainment, housing, having an ex post facto punishment of being registered as a sex offender, and a whole host of other issues that could have been dealt with outside of the court system.

Also, did you see the part of the story in the OP's link where a city paid a $250,000 settlement because of the aggressive interrogation over a similar incident, and the young person committed suicide as a result? This tragedy, that the family is now having to grieve over, very likely wouldn't have happened if it had been dealt with appropriately, as a foolish teenage indiscretion the way it was dealt with 50 years ago. And you can't believe that teenagers today were the only ones to ever behave in a foolish and hormonal manner, even if the way it was done takes on a slightly different form.

If you think this is a smart strategy, then I don't think it's the young people who need to be saved from themselves.

Last edited by Jowel; 08-31-2019 at 08:38 AM..
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Old 08-31-2019, 08:04 AM
 
13,092 posts, read 14,339,224 times
Reputation: 36139
I'm eighty-one, and the shift in moral behavior that I have seen in my lifetime has been radical. And it has been radical in several time periods over that time span.

It occurs to me that when this girl is the mother of adolescents that porn selfies and videos will be something that more teenagers than not will be doing.
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Old 08-31-2019, 08:27 AM
 
Location: North Carolina
3,044 posts, read 2,108,322 times
Reputation: 6223
Quote:
Originally Posted by kevxu View Post
I'm eighty-one, and the shift in moral behavior that I have seen in my lifetime has been radical. And it has been radical in several time periods over that time span.

It occurs to me that when this girl is the mother of adolescents that porn selfies and videos will be something that more teenagers than not will be doing.
As someone who has seen various social change, I'm wondering what you (or anyone in the older generation) think about my theory as it relates to a story like this (below)? I'd love to hear your more of your views, or the views of someone in your generation.

It would seem that generations ago, more younger people still in their teenage years were getting married, raising a family, working on the farm, going into the military, etc., and being independent responsible young adults earlier in life. Teenagers seemed (?) to mature socially faster than they are now, when many who are almost finished with high school struggle to even hold a basic conversation, especially since many modes of communication no longer require that.

Since the previous generations were married at a much younger age, they had an outlet to express physical intimacy with their partner that was socially acceptable when their hormones were in high gear, which hasn't fundamentally changed. But they sure didn't broadcast it. At least that's my theory- does that sound reasonable?

I know of a couple, who are still happily married, in their late 80's now who got married when the man was 18 and the lady was 15, which would be scandalous if not illegal now. I didn't know them when they were young but they are your typical conservative, wholesome church going older couple.

Today though, teenagers are either helicopter parented which socially retards them, or parenting is more absent (especially with lack of a consistent father figure and then a mother who has a constant turnover of boyfriends). But their endocrine system is still releasing the same teenage hormones that teenagers in the 1940's were encountering (if not sooner- thanks to GMOs and other environmental changes- which is a different topic).

Last edited by Jowel; 08-31-2019 at 08:51 AM..
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Old 08-31-2019, 08:36 AM
 
10,937 posts, read 4,440,113 times
Reputation: 27623
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jowel View Post
As someone who has seen various social change, I'm wondering what you (or anyone in the older generation) thinks about my theory as it relates to a story like this.

It would seem that generations ago, more younger people still in their teenage years were getting married, raising a family, working on the farm, going into the military, etc., and being independent responsible young adults earlier in life. Teenagers seemed mature socially faster than they are now, when many who are almost finished with high school struggle to even hold a basic conversation. Since they were married at a young age, they had an outlet to express physical intimacy with their partner that was socially acceptable when their hormones were in high gear, which hasn't fundamentally changed. But they sure didn't broadcast it. At least that's my theory- does that sound reasonable?

I know of a couple, who are still happily married, in their late 80's now who got married when the man was 18 and the lady was 15, which would be scandalous if not illegal now. I didn't know them when they were young but they are your typical conservative, wholesome church going older couple.

Today though, teenagers are either helicopter parented which socially retards them, or parenting is more absent (especially with lack of a consistent father figure and then a mother who has a constant turnover of boyfriends). But their endocrine system is still releasing the same teenage hormones that teenagers in the 1940's were encountering (if not sooner- thanks to GMOs and other environmental changes- which is a different topic).
One of my best friends worked in one of those little drive up photomat things that look like a telephone booth. When she was bored, she'd thumb through the photo envelopes that hadn't been picked up.

I can tell you, people have been photographing their privates and each other's privates since at least the 70's, prolifically.

The difference is it's so much easier to contain the spread. Unless, of course, you work in a photo booth and call your friend to come look at the pic of ______ that's shown up in the photo bin.
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Old 08-31-2019, 09:32 AM
 
7,368 posts, read 1,617,202 times
Reputation: 17961
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jowel View Post
No. The court system does not need to be intervening in every incident of reckless judgment on the part of a 16 year old that leads to high school drama. That's an asinine idea.

Instead of only having consequences that young people typically have when they do something foolish like this, we're involving the court system in things like this? You think that's a good idea?

We're not talking about a 16 year old robbing a convenience store at gunpoint. So now we're introducing a host of problems that a criminal charge brings (depending on the state) and the inability to secure a job, educational attainment, housing, having an ex post facto punishment of being registered as a sex offender, and a whole host of other issues that could have been dealt with outside of the court system.

Also, did you see the part of the story in the OP's link where a city paid a $250,000 settlement because of the aggressive interrogation over a similar incident, and the young person committed suicide as a result? This tragedy, that the family is now having to grieve over, very likely wouldn't have happened if it had been dealt with appropriately, as a foolish teenage indiscretion the way it was dealt with 50 years ago. And you can't believe that teenagers today were the only ones to ever behave in a foolish and hormonal manner, even if the way it was done takes on a slightly different form.

If you think this is a smart strategy, then I don't think it's the young people who need to be saved from themselves.
I consider this bold to be very rude. If you disagree with me, that is fine -- but no reason to be nasty. But, yes, I do believe that sometimes an example must be made of someone even though many other people have done stupid things without consequence.

Also, regarding the young person who committed suicide, I am surprised because I don't think anyone who would post such photos would be so sensitive -- but, again, that is my opinion, and opinions can be wrong, of course.
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Old 08-31-2019, 09:36 AM
 
7,368 posts, read 1,617,202 times
Reputation: 17961
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jowel View Post
As someone who has seen various social change, I'm wondering what you (or anyone in the older generation) think about my theory as it relates to a story like this (below)? I'd love to hear your more of your views, or the views of someone in your generation.

It would seem that generations ago, more younger people still in their teenage years were getting married, raising a family, working on the farm, going into the military, etc., and being independent responsible young adults earlier in life. Teenagers seemed (?) to mature socially faster than they are now, when many who are almost finished with high school struggle to even hold a basic conversation, especially since many modes of communication no longer require that.

Since the previous generations were married at a much younger age, they had an outlet to express physical intimacy with their partner that was socially acceptable when their hormones were in high gear, which hasn't fundamentally changed. But they sure didn't broadcast it. At least that's my theory- does that sound reasonable?

Today though, teenagers are either helicopter parented which socially retards them, or parenting is more absent (especially with lack of a consistent father figure and then a mother who has a constant turnover of boyfriends). But their endocrine system is still releasing the same teenage hormones that teenagers in the 1940's were encountering (if not sooner- thanks to GMOs and other environmental changes- which is a different topic).
I'm 66 and much of what you wrote above is true, I think. But the difference between now and then seems to be the complete sense of any lack of discretion when it comes to sex. I am certainly not advocating going back to Puritanical values, but it does seem that we have gone too far in the opposite direction.

Just my opinion.
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Old 08-31-2019, 09:57 AM
 
Location: DMV Area/NYC/Honolulu
12,949 posts, read 6,654,872 times
Reputation: 12533
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jowel View Post
No. The court system does not need to be intervening in every incident of reckless judgment on the part of a 16 year old that leads to high school drama. That's an asinine idea.

Instead of only having consequences that young people typically have when they do something foolish like this, we're involving the court system in things like this? You think that's a good idea?

We're not talking about a 16 year old robbing a convenience store at gunpoint. So now we're introducing a host of problems that a criminal charge brings (depending on the state) and the inability to secure a job, educational attainment, housing, having an ex post facto punishment of being registered as a sex offender, and a whole host of other issues that could have been dealt with outside of the court system.

Also, did you see the part of the story in the OP's link where a city paid a $250,000 settlement because of the aggressive interrogation over a similar incident, and the young person committed suicide as a result? This tragedy, that the family is now having to grieve over, very likely wouldn't have happened if it had been dealt with appropriately, as a foolish teenage indiscretion the way it was dealt with 50 years ago. And you can't believe that teenagers today were the only ones to ever behave in a foolish and hormonal manner, even if the way it was done takes on a slightly different form.

If you think this is a smart strategy, then I don't think it's the young people who need to be saved from themselves.
I can see the other argument, but I ultimately agree with you. We have become way too over-criminalized of a society, with these criminal convictions (who cares if you actually serve jail time or not) having serious and major impacts on people's livelihoods, to include negatively impacting the ability to attend college and get employed to provide for oneself and one's family; and juvenile records don't just vanish as some may want folks to believe. There was no victim in this case and the "perpetrator" and "offenders" were both minors. You shouldn't be ruined for a childish mistake. Shame on those prosecutors who choose to bring charges in these cases.

To those who say that its appropriate to charge children with such crimes because the video being inadvertently or intentionally sent (but not requested by the adult) to an adult will result in the adult's life being ruined, that's an argument to reform such laws and have stricter intent requirements.
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Old 08-31-2019, 11:45 AM
 
Location: DMV Area/NYC/Honolulu
12,949 posts, read 6,654,872 times
Reputation: 12533
Quote:
Originally Posted by Busa View Post
Touching on the subject of comparing generations, I'm curious as to when we started classifying 16 and 17 year olds as children. During the passing of generations, when did our views of teenagers begin to shift in terms of their responsibilities or mentalities? It seems that in some cases (location dependent), we're expected to believe 17 year olds don't know any better but once they hit 18, all is well.

Going back to the topic here, if the male in the video is below the age of 18, can she be charged with having sexual relations with a minor?
It would all depend on how much younger than 18 the child is. In MD, the age of consent for sexual relations in 16; thus, if each party is at least 16 years old, any sexual activity between them is presumed to be lawful. Maryland also has close-in-age exceptions, whereby if the younger party is at least 14 years old and the older party is not more than 3 years older than the younger party, the sex is legally permitted.

Thus, the only things she can be charged with here will relate to child pornography; I'm pretty sure that the article stated that the male was 16 years old, too.
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Old 08-31-2019, 12:16 PM
 
Location: Rutherfordton,NC
15,222 posts, read 9,339,617 times
Reputation: 10126
There sure are a lot of innocent people here who never experimented with sex as teenagers.
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