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Old Today, 11:37 AM
 
Location: In the outlet by the lightswitch
1,832 posts, read 1,069,434 times
Reputation: 3366

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cloudy Dayz View Post
What is that telling me, and what does it have to do with the boat that burned? Yes, we know the boat had emergency exits. So why didn't the crew evacuate the passengers that way?

From the sound of the reports, there was fire over the exits (both exits came into the galley and the galley was engulfed). Are you telling me you could climb into a fire wearing no protective gear (remember, the crew was on the bridge, two levels above the sleeping quarters--look at the pictures) and walk into a fire and somehow not burn up all the while ushering passengers out of a fire? It sounds like the kind of stuff you see in movies that is, in reality, impossible.

The flip side of your argument, one might ask why didn't the passengers run though the fire to save themselves? If the fire in your mind was tame enough and the smoke not so thick that people could walk though it, why didn't any of the passengers do it?

This is a guess on my part, but my guess is the heat was too much for human flesh (one of the crew was screaming in pain, most likely badly burnt) and the smoke to thick to see or even breathe. The crew aren't fully equipped professional fire fighters. And the passengers were probably dead from smoke inhalation (or unconscious).

I don't think people are "making excuses" I think people are withholding judgement (innocent until proven guilty). Life isn't a fairy tale or a movie after all where people are heroes or villains. Sometimes people are just human.
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Old Today, 11:39 AM
 
21,373 posts, read 17,010,739 times
Reputation: 39844
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cloudy Dayz View Post
The captain goes down with the ship - Wikipedia

This gutless pathetic crew did not save their passengers, and they did not die trying. They just abandoned ship and saved their own lives. Just like Captain Francesco Schettino, who is now serving time for manslaughter, they had to be ordered back to the ship by the Coast Guard. That is unacceptable. They must be charged with manslaughter.
You have no idea what they tried or what they saw. He start Marines, these are young men hired to work on a boat. Iím sure they wouldíve tried to save them if they could, but thereís no reason to think that they should give up their lives to.

You do this on so many threads, you jump to erroneous assumptions and judgments and conclusions instead of just waiting for the facts or listening to posters who have experience and knowledge ( One of whom stated heís been on this exact boat several times) and then you dig your heels in and insist youíre right about your assumptions.
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Old Today, 11:41 AM
 
Location: Lone Mountain Las Vegas NV
13,296 posts, read 5,088,000 times
Reputation: 5877
Quote:
Originally Posted by ocnjgirl View Post
That then makes the boat more susceptible to leaks. More people die from boats flooding and sinking then they do burning. How would you open it and get out without all the water just rushing in and filling the boat and drowning everyone? Sounds like they just be trading one death for another.
Not really. In fact virtually all boats leak. The systems expect this. An emergency port well above the water line would not be a problem. Simply an expense to include and maintain.

Most ocean going boats can sustain a wave breaking fully over the boat. Did one passage off Baja when we played submarine every 4 or 5 minutes. We took on lots of water. Like a full cockpit. And the bilge pump ran a lot. But no we were in no danger of sinking. The water ran off or was pumped from the bilge.
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Old Today, 11:42 AM
 
Location: Oregon Coast
5,520 posts, read 2,229,201 times
Reputation: 7203
Quote:
Originally Posted by ocnjgirl View Post
I donít know that they were overloaded. I havenít heard that. The family of five of the people who died, said that her and the family would take that trip every single year on that boat. She didnít say anything about that sounding like more people than normal. She didnít sound angry about the people running the dive trip. I think it was just a tragic accident. I donít think the crew abandon them. From what Iíve heard everything below the top deck was too engulfed in flames for them to go back down and try to do anything. I havenít heard anything about them being locked in there either, where did you see that?The crew escape because they were sleeping on the top deck. I havenít heard anything about them suspecting the law was broken in anyway here.

That may change of course as we learn more about it, but as of now it does not sound like a criminal investigation.
34 people jammed into one room is overloaded IMHO. The crew certainly did abandon them. Five of the six crew members left the boat. None of the passengers did. The Coast Guard ordered them to return to the boat and try to rescue the trapped passengers. Which is what they should have done on their own.
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Old Today, 11:47 AM
 
Location: Oregon Coast
5,520 posts, read 2,229,201 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ocnjgirl View Post
Thereís no indication they did anything wrong whatsoever. This is nothing like that captain. They may have been able to see immediately that there was no way to get to those people.
Both captains had to be ordered by the Coast Guard to return to the ship. I would say that is a big similarity.
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Old Today, 11:50 AM
 
Location: Lone Mountain Las Vegas NV
13,296 posts, read 5,088,000 times
Reputation: 5877
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cloudy Dayz View Post
34 people jammed into one room is overloaded IMHO. The crew certainly did abandon them. Five of the six crew members left the boat. None of the passengers did. The Coast Guard ordered them to return to the boat and try to rescue the trapped passengers. Which is what they should have done on their own.
You are misstating what happened. The CG dispatcher discussed whether there was any feasible way to re board the boat and free the passengers. There were no orders given nor would they have been appropriate. And a couple of the crew did return near the boat hoping to find escaped passengers in the water.

There are some interesting issues. The big fire fighting tool on a boat that size would be the fire hose. But apparently it was not deployed. That likely would have been the only hope of getting to the passengers. Was it deploy-able? If not why not?
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Old Today, 11:56 AM
 
33,074 posts, read 16,919,978 times
Reputation: 17921
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ted Bear View Post
Curious to know how the fire started, why it spread so quickly, and why no-one got out of below decks. Won't change that they are all dead, but will satisfy my curiosity over how such a tragedy can occur in a "modern' vessel.
Someone on a mariner's forum suggested one relatively recent development: Everyone is touting devices with (sometimes multiple) Li-ion batteries these days. Phones, cameras, vapes, diving lights. Highly energetic, have been known to catch fire and are almost impossible to put out.

If that's the case, we're going to get a USCG reg on where to charge devices - that is, not in bunk areas.

And yes, that is entirely guesswork.
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Old Today, 12:06 PM
 
Location: Oregon Coast
5,520 posts, read 2,229,201 times
Reputation: 7203
Quote:
Originally Posted by ocnjgirl View Post
These people were on the third floor bottom deck how are they going to have a port that opens above sea level? How was it any different than the escape hatch they already had that leads up to the second level and then the top level?
There would have been plenty of room for many escape hatches on the lower level. I will bet you any amount of money, that it will be a requirement on all new boats after this incident.

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Old Today, 12:10 PM
 
Location: Oregon Coast
5,520 posts, read 2,229,201 times
Reputation: 7203
Quote:
Originally Posted by katharsis View Post
I wonder if this will affect the sailing industry in general. We went on a Mainejammer cruise three years ago, and I am fairly sure that it only had one exist from the bottom to the top. (I could be wrong about that, but I don't think so.) We had a wonderful time and didn't even consider any safety issues except the possibility of a hurricane when we booked the trip.

I bet plenty of people will ask more questions before they book ANY kind of cruise as a result of this horrible tragedy.
There will be new regulations. Unfortunately it takes a tragedy like this to make it happen.
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Old Today, 12:10 PM
 
Location: Lone Mountain Las Vegas NV
13,296 posts, read 5,088,000 times
Reputation: 5877
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cloudy Dayz View Post
There would have been plenty of room for many escape hatches on the lower level. I will bet you any amount of money, that it will be a requirement on all new boats after this incident.
I would also expect that a hatch could have been easily placed in the main deck along side the Salon or in the bow. Such a hatch would link to the open air free of the structure.
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