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Old 09-04-2019, 06:55 PM
 
1,156 posts, read 324,287 times
Reputation: 3234

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Quote:
Originally Posted by ditchoc View Post
After a couple of days, no mention has been made public about how the fire started. That may be construed as suspicions by its self.
Not surprising. If an investigation is ongoing, I imagine even a crew member who knew precisely what happened would be told to keep their mouth shut. If it's all guesswork, even more reason as the last thing we need is speculation being reported as fact, or lawsuits based on what a crew member guesses could have happened vs what really did.


Quote:
Originally Posted by TMBGBlueCanary View Post
II am not really sure about this "locked in" that I keep hearing. It looks like a regular staircase up. And to get to the head, you'd have to be able to get out of the sleeping arra (I would think... I am guessing the head was not in the sleeping area. I've never seen that before) so why would the crew lock passengers in? I think that's a mistake someone reported somewhere.
Yes, that's what I said. In the radio transcript, apparently the Coast Guard operator says something like "They're locked in? Can you go back and unlock the door?" We don't know what the caller said to that. A Coast Guard captain later said there were no locked doors.

Quote:
Originally Posted by K12144 View Post
They were not locked; it seems there was simply misunderstanding initially between the CG radio operator and the crew.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Cloudy Dayz View Post
There is no evidence that they even tried. It was reported that the Coast Guard had to order them to return and try to save the passengers.
There is also no evidence that they did not. All I have seen reported is that they escaped, not the circumstances under which they did so.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Cloudy Dayz View Post
They should all have gotten fire extinguishers and gone below deck to rescue the passengers. If they died doing that, then so be it. That was their job. You can't have a ship's crew members jumping overboard, and leaving passengers to fend for themselves.
Well, no, I doubt their job description involved death. If you have something that says otherwise, feel free to share.

Did you also miss the part in the radio transcript where the CG operator says something like, "You don't have any fire extinguishers or protective gear or anything?"?

And you really think that kind of fire can be fought with a couple fire extinguishers?


Quote:
Originally Posted by ocnjgirl View Post
I donít know that they were overloaded. I havenít heard that. The family of five of the people who died, said that her and the family would take that trip every single year on that boat. She didnít say anything about that sounding like more people than normal.
Yes, I had addressed that, too.

Quote:
Originally Posted by K12144 View Post
This boat was apparently able to fit 46 people.
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Old 09-04-2019, 09:15 PM
 
Location: Oregon Coast
5,533 posts, read 2,237,927 times
Reputation: 7273
Quote:
Originally Posted by lvmensch View Post
You are misstating what happened. The CG dispatcher discussed whether there was any feasible way to re board the boat and free the passengers. There were no orders given nor would they have been appropriate. And a couple of the crew did return near the boat hoping to find escaped passengers in the water.

There are some interesting issues. The big fire fighting tool on a boat that size would be the fire hose. But apparently it was not deployed. That likely would have been the only hope of getting to the passengers. Was it deploy-able? If not why not?
The Coast Guard said, "Can you get back onboard and unlock the boat?" We can assume that the captain responded, something to the effect of, no, it's on fire. To which the Coast Guard responded, "You donít have any firefighting gear at all? No fire extinguishers or anything?Ē The crew then returned to the burning boat.

The captain had better have a damn good explanation for why they didn't try to rescue the passengers, and/or why they didn't try to fight the fire. The normal stuff a crew would do in a situation like that. I can't imagine what type of explanation he could possibly give that will keep him out of prison.
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Old 09-04-2019, 09:21 PM
 
Location: Oregon Coast
5,533 posts, read 2,237,927 times
Reputation: 7273
Quote:
Originally Posted by ditchoc View Post
Just like the Coast Guard dispatcher, Cloudy Dayz was not there. Neither knows the exact circumstances. Neither do I but it appears the fire was not discovered immediately and progressed quickly. Within minutes it was a raging inferno engulfing the entire salon that was large enough to seat at least 40 people for chow. Any number of fire extinguishers would have been useless to put the fire out. Even if a fire hose was brought to bear it is doubtful it would have been effective. Time is critical here. There is an old adage that at some point, a cup of water can put out any fire. Once a fire is out of control, that is exactly what it means. Many times fire fighters best hope is to keep it from spreading while letting it burn out. I have been in volunteer fire/EMS for almost 30 years. I am a blue water sailor with a navigation rating. I also have an engineering degree. I am not the brightest star in the sky but I know a few things. I like to speculate using available information but I try not to make outrageous accusations because I think I know it all.


No doubt, boat design could have incorporated additional safety measures including a better means to escape. I said from the beginning that future designs will probably require changes. The existing port holes that allow for some light and maybe pass a sandwich through, assuming they could open in the first place, does not mean they could be turned into an emergency exit door. There are trade off for everything. Not so long ago a ferry in Europe (I think) flooded and sank drowning hundreds because a simple seal on a door near the water level failed and flooded it.
Well it didn't progress too quickly for them not to have enough time to rescue THEMSELVES.
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Old 09-04-2019, 09:29 PM
 
Location: Omaha, Nebraska
7,470 posts, read 4,290,852 times
Reputation: 18822
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cloudy Dayz View Post
Well it didn't progress too quickly for them not to have enough time to rescue THEMSELVES.
Since all they had to do to save themselves was jump overboard, thatís hardly a surprise.
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Old 09-04-2019, 09:30 PM
 
Location: Lone Mountain Las Vegas NV
13,315 posts, read 5,097,318 times
Reputation: 5895
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cloudy Dayz View Post
The Coast Guard said, "Can you get back onboard and unlock the boat?" We can assume that the captain responded, something to the effect of, no, it's on fire. To which the Coast Guard responded, "You donít have any firefighting gear at all? No fire extinguishers or anything?Ē The crew then returned to the burning boat.

The captain had better have a damn good explanation for why they didn't try to rescue the passengers, and/or why they didn't try to fight the fire. The normal stuff a crew would do in a situation like that. I can't imagine what type of explanation he could possibly give that will keep him out of prison.
More nonsense. It is not even yet established that the CG was talking to the Captain. And even if it was there is no testimony as to what was received by whomever was on the other end of the conversation.

"Can you get back onboard and unlock the boat?" Is a request not an order and there is no evidence the person on the other end even heard it. Obviously not relevant as there was nothing to unlock.

It is obvious that some have had little experience with communications on the naval channels under bad conditions. It can suck...which it likely did here.

Let it be. The Captain likely has a terrible guilt problem to deal with. He does not need outside help.
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Old 09-04-2019, 09:38 PM
 
Location: Oregon Coast
5,533 posts, read 2,237,927 times
Reputation: 7273
Quote:
Originally Posted by TMBGBlueCanary View Post
I don't think they have fire fighting suits on a boat like that. At least, I've never seen anything like that on any boat (either day trip or live aboard). Do you have some information on what gear was on the boat and where? If so, please share it.

And as others said, the Coast Guard didn't order them to do anything. They asked if it was plausible to go back.

There may be fault, I don't know. There will be an investigation. But again, innocent until proven guilty. Too many innocent people have been tried by media for me to participate in it.
At very least they had fire extinguishers and fire hoses. They should have stayed on the boat and attempted to fight the fire. A crew can't just abandoned ship and leave passengers to burn to death.
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Old 09-04-2019, 09:47 PM
 
33,121 posts, read 16,934,035 times
Reputation: 17974
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cloudy Dayz View Post
At very least they had fire extinguishers and fire hoses.
Again? Pressurizing marine fire hoses take pump control and valve tree access. They're not simply hooked up to the water main. Because they're, y'know, on a boat.
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Old 09-04-2019, 09:53 PM
 
Location: Oregon Coast
5,533 posts, read 2,237,927 times
Reputation: 7273
Quote:
Originally Posted by lvmensch View Post
Actually a forward hatch into the cabin is almost standard on larger sailboats. And rear hatches are not uncommon on power boats. And various open-able hatches on larger boats above the water line are actually quite common.

And the submarine incident lasted two and a half days. Particularly fun in the middle of the night. Sufficiently dangerous that the helmsman was always tied to the boat. The actual message from that trip was if you run in front of a major storm don't let it catch you.
Many boats have escape hatches right at the waterline. Some people here just seem to want to make excuses for this tragedy.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_lRzA-dijgA
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Old 09-04-2019, 09:58 PM
 
Location: Oregon Coast
5,533 posts, read 2,237,927 times
Reputation: 7273
Quote:
Originally Posted by davidt1 View Post
Some folks seem to have this idea that it's your responsibility to save the passengers if you work on the boat. Your safety comes first. If helping someone kills you too, then now there is one additional death that is not necessary.
Have you ever seen airline crew members slide down and emergency slide before the passengers? I don't think so. It is the crews responsibility to evacuate the passengers.
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Old 09-04-2019, 11:08 PM
 
Location: colorado springs, CO
5,239 posts, read 2,415,178 times
Reputation: 17379
I am no expert on boats but I have witnessed an oxygen truck explosion & if anything similar occurred on this boat, there would have been no way for anyone to get close enough to rescue anybody.

Oxygen does not actually EXplode. It IMplodes. As it does this, a huge bubble cloud forms & expands that looks & sounds like static electricity. There is no way you could just walk through it. In fact, if this is what happened, I'd be surprised if it didn't blow anyone on the deck right into the water.

'Lightning' bolts will track from the outer sides of the bubble towards the source (versus from the source outward) & then there is a fiery blast that spreads instantaneously. I can see how a boat could be engulfed in flames, with every emergency exit covered in fire.

Again, even if that bubble did not blast the crew off the boat; there is no way they could have forced their way through it.
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