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Old 09-04-2019, 11:27 PM
 
33,130 posts, read 16,941,727 times
Reputation: 17984

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cloudy Dayz View Post
Many boats have escape hatches right at the waterline. Some people here just seem to want to make excuses for this tragedy.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_lRzA-dijgA
Not passenger vessels. But thanks. Imagining the look on the USCG inspector's face as someone explains the waterline hatch in a passenger compartment is the first thing about this debacle to put a smile on my face.
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Old 09-05-2019, 01:40 AM
 
Location: on the wind
7,767 posts, read 3,256,367 times
Reputation: 26333
In the radio transcript, apparently the Coast Guard operator says something like "They're locked in? Can you go back and unlock the door?" We don't know what the caller said to that. A Coast Guard captain later said there were no locked doors.

Its possible they meant latched doors. Many larger vessels have sliding galley and main cabin doors, not hinged doors that open outwards such as on a building. The latches don't all release completely with one movement; you often have to depress a button as well as turn the latch handle 90 degrees to completely release the door. It helps keep the doors from working loose and sliding in rough seas. Again, don't know what this boat had. They wouldn't have locked cabin doors while anchored with crew and passengers on board. Makes no sense.

[b]Did you also miss the part in the radio transcript where the CG operator says something like, "You don't have any fire extinguishers or protective gear or anything?"?

Wonder of wonders. Survivors who managed to bail off a burning boat in the dark at 3:30 am don't happen to have fire extinguishers or protective suits along with them. The CG operator probably wouldn't know at that point that the crew they were on the radio with wasn't hailing them from a tender, skiff, that might have had safety gear or anything else available.

And you really think that kind of fire can be fought with a couple fire extinguishers?

There's a part of fire extinguisher training (if you've been lucky enough to have annual mandatory training for your job like some of us have) where you learn to recognize at what point a fire is beyond your control. Standard extinguisher training states that the first step is to CALL FOR HELP. Then, attempt to extinguish the fire, but only to attempt it if the fire is below knee height, localized, and not engulfing the structures around itself. Anything beyond that will probably not be influenced much with a hand held tank, so you back off and join efforts to help, you don't stand there and get incapacitated. This boat was waaaay beyond that point by the time anyone got off of it.
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Old 09-05-2019, 03:51 AM
 
3,374 posts, read 1,664,742 times
Reputation: 3534
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cloudy Dayz View Post
Many boats have escape hatches right at the waterline. Some people here just seem to want to make excuses for this tragedy.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_lRzA-dijgA
And if you open that hatch door, wouldn't water be rushing in?
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Old 09-05-2019, 04:58 AM
 
21,428 posts, read 17,033,297 times
Reputation: 39951
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cloudy Dayz View Post
The Coast Guard said, "Can you get back onboard and unlock the boat?" We can assume that the captain responded, something to the effect of, no, it's on fire. To which the Coast Guard responded, "You don’t have any firefighting gear at all? No fire extinguishers or anything?” The crew then returned to the burning boat.

The captain had better have a damn good explanation for why they didn't try to rescue the passengers, and/or why they didn't try to fight the fire. The normal stuff a crew would do in a situation like that. I can't imagine what type of explanation he could possibly give that will keep him out of prison.
No one is going to jail, not one thing I’ve read so far blames crew for any aspect. Both exits from below were blocked by flames. By the time those above deck opened the door to see flames shooting out, it was already engulfed and too late to do anything. Diont know why I’m bothering.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.lat...on%3f_amp=true

Last edited by ocnjgirl; 09-05-2019 at 05:12 AM..
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Old 09-05-2019, 05:39 AM
 
5,042 posts, read 2,263,890 times
Reputation: 7269
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cloudy Dayz View Post
Many boats have escape hatches right at the waterline. Some people here just seem to want to make excuses for this tragedy.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_lRzA-dijgA



There are a lot of different kinds of boats built for different purposes with different characteristics. That is pretty obvious to most people. Sailboats, even cats, have to counteract the forces of wind on the sails. Everyone has seen pictures of sailboats heeling over with sailors hiking out over the edge in a trapeze to counteract some of this force.


It all has to do with the center of gravity of the boat and what they call "righting moment". Once you get past a certain point, the boat can no longer right itself and it rolls over. Sailboats tend to draw more water, that is their hull is deeper. This deeper hull is often used in larger sail boats as cabin space.


Now, if the sail boat rolls, its upside down and all the hatches are on deck or underwater. Now a water line hatch makes more sense. It is not intended to be opened unless the boat is upside down because now the hatch is no longer at the waterline. The hatch is now in the highest part of the boat and provides an emergency exit in this extreme situation. If it were opened at any other time, the inrush of water would prevent you from exiting, flood the boat and probably sink it in short order.
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Old 09-05-2019, 06:49 AM
 
Location: NJ
10,950 posts, read 21,602,890 times
Reputation: 9316
Quote:
Originally Posted by TMBGBlueCanary View Post
I used to dive off a boat called the Encore to the Channel Islands. It's been decades and I don't even know if that boat still exists.

The best way I can figure to describe the setup for those who have never been in such a boat is that it's a lot like the racks one might find in a Navy boat. It's basically just a room full of bunk beds. It's tight (and I remember it being hot too with all the people packed in). Sometimes I would just go on deck and fall asleep there instead.

I found a picture of the Conception's sleeping quarters (it's similar to what I remember from the boat I regularly stayed on). I am not really sure about this "locked in" that I keep hearing. It looks like a regular staircase up. And to get to the head, you'd have to be able to get out of the sleeping arra (I would think... I am guessing the head was not in the sleeping area. I've never seen that before) so why would the crew lock passengers in? I think that's a mistake someone reported somewhere.


There are other pictures here including a diagram of the boat:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...deck-fire.html


I would hold off on judgement on the crew of the boat. If it the fire was that hot, intense, and fast, there is really nothing anyone could have done except abandon the ship and call for help (which they did). Think of it this way, if it was too hot and fast for people who were trapped in it to risk running though the galley to get out, how superhuman would it be to climb down a ladder from the bridge (see the picture) into the fire-filled galley to get in to get to others? I would think anyone going in would quickly be overcome. Not to mention climbing a down a ladder into flames without protective gear is just not something I think I could even do if I wanted to.

Best article I've read.

Not only that, the boat was fully engulfed in flames when they got to the other boat. The witnesses said there were also explosions going off. They were probably already deceased by the time the crew jumped ship.
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Old 09-05-2019, 07:26 AM
 
Location: So Ca
16,092 posts, read 15,300,204 times
Reputation: 14028
Surviving crew member thought phone charging station might have sparked boat fire:
https://www.latimes.com/california/s...the-conception
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Old 09-05-2019, 08:53 AM
 
Location: NJ
10,950 posts, read 21,602,890 times
Reputation: 9316
Quote:
Originally Posted by CA4Now View Post
Surviving crew member thought phone charging station might have sparked boat fire:
https://www.latimes.com/california/s...the-conception
Here is another link for those that can't read that one like me

Surviving crew member thought phone charging station might have sparked boat fire
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Old 09-05-2019, 05:05 PM
 
Location: So Ca
16,092 posts, read 15,300,204 times
Reputation: 14028
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roselvr View Post
Here is another link for those that can't read that one like me
Sometimes you can paste the link into a different browser. Readers are supposed to get X number of free articles per month.

Update:

Crew members on board the Conception have told investigators that fire that swept through the vessel was too intense to save any of the passengers trapped below, a top National Transportation Safety Board official told The (L.A.)Times.

“What’s emerging from the interviews is a harrowing story of the last few minutes before the boat was engulfed in flames,” said NTSB member Jennifer Homendy, who is overseeing the agency’s probe into the worst maritime disaster in modern California history. “They felt that they had done what they could do in a very panicked situation.”

The interviews offer the clearest sense to date of what it was like to be aboard the boat when it caught fire and how the crew members on the top deck managed to escape. But they don’t answer some of the key questions by investigators, including how the fire started and whether the ship’s safety protocols were up to adequate.

Homendy said at least one crew member was awakened and left his bunk and, at some point, jumped over the side with his other crew members to try to rescue passengers.

“The galley area was engulfed in flames,” he told investigators. “They tried to enter through the double doors but couldn’t get in because of the flames. They tried to access the galley from the front through the windows, but the windows wouldn’t open.

At some point because of the heat, smoke and fire, they had jumped from the boat. One of the crew members jumped from the boat and broke his leg. Two of the crew members swam back to get the skiff, got the skiff and picked up the crew to take them to a good Samaritan vessel.

They contacted authorities and “returned to the vessel to find survivors,” Homendy said.

The crew member who initially heard the noise got up to look over the side. He looked down and flames were coming up.

He tried to use the ladder, “but the ladder was engulfed in flames,” Homendy said. “They just couldn’t get in.”

The escape hatch and the entrance were blocked by flames.

“It surprised me how small it was and how difficult it was to access, she said about the escape hatch. “I couldn't see the people in front of me."


Surviving crew members said boat fire was too intense to save any passengers:
https://www.latimes.com/california/s...ers-passengers
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Old 09-05-2019, 09:20 PM
 
Location: Fort Lauderdale, Florida
9,498 posts, read 8,509,662 times
Reputation: 20810
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dane_in_LA View Post
Someone on a mariner's forum suggested one relatively recent development: Everyone is touting devices with (sometimes multiple) Li-ion batteries these days. Phones, cameras, vapes, diving lights. Highly energetic, have been known to catch fire and are almost impossible to put out.

.
It's looking a lot like Lithium batteries were the culprit.

The boat had very recently passed a USCG inspection.
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