U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Current Events
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 09-06-2019, 02:24 PM
 
33,152 posts, read 16,949,047 times
Reputation: 17997

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by AguaDulce View Post
Any chance that reasonable steps weren't taken to ensure free and unobstructed fire escapes? Criminal investigation?
NTSB and USCG are investigating, and these guys are professional to a fault. If there's anything to be found, they'll find it.

As for the fire escapes, this is an inspected passenger vessel - which means the Coasties show up once per year to check that the safety regulations - and there are many - are upheld. The bullet-pointed, dumbed-down checklist to prepare for that inspection is 80 pages or so long, the regulations themselves cover thousands of pages. More to the point, the Coast Guard doesn't muck about. It's safe to assume that the vessel had the approved fire escapes.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 09-06-2019, 02:32 PM
 
33,152 posts, read 16,949,047 times
Reputation: 17997
Quote:
Originally Posted by Parnassia View Post
I'm pretty certain they'll discover more than one factor played into this tragedy; a horrible perfect storm of small actions that might or might not have been predictable or preventable.
With otherwise reliable operators, that tends to be how it works - an accident chain, where each link in and of itself wouldn't amount to anything, but they just aligned really badly this one single time.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-06-2019, 04:39 PM
 
21,445 posts, read 17,042,509 times
Reputation: 39976
Quote:
Originally Posted by lvmensch View Post
I would think there is one big central fact from this disaster. The central salon, the physical center of the boat, caught fire and was fully engulfed in flames before anyone noticed.

The watch stander does not roam the boat. He or she keeps a watch in the wheel house which has both the needed nav equipment to tell if the boat is moving and the vantage point to see what is going on in the vicinity.

The primary line of defense would be smoke or fire detectors. On a boat carrying passengers rigged to a loud alarm system. It appears clear that such a system did not activate allowing the fire to reach fatal proportions before it was noticed.

What kind of systems the boat had and their operational status will be an interesting story.
We donít know yet if the fire was a smoldering one to start or an explosion. They are looking at lithium ion batteries as a possible cause. If one exploded in a five boat full of oxygen tanks itís possible the inferno happened so quickly that a smoke detector wouldnít have helped. It might have exploded and melted in the explosion along with everything in the galley. I have a hard time believing it would have passed inspections without them, and per reports from some of our own posters this was s top notch, well reputed company.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-06-2019, 05:17 PM
 
Location: Lone Mountain Las Vegas NV
13,331 posts, read 5,106,731 times
Reputation: 5910
Quote:
Originally Posted by ocnjgirl View Post
We donít know yet if the fire was a smoldering one to start or an explosion. They are looking at lithium ion batteries as a possible cause. If one exploded in a five boat full of oxygen tanks itís possible the inferno happened so quickly that a smoke detector wouldnít have helped. It might have exploded and melted in the explosion along with everything in the galley. I have a hard time believing it would have passed inspections without them, and per reports from some of our own posters this was s top notch, well reputed company.
Any sort of a significant explosion would have been immediately picked up likely by everyone on the boat. This is not that big a craft. But according to the crew they picked it up when flames were noted coming from the salon by the crew on the bridge deck.

And you can get an interesting fire from a li ion failing but it is not that sort of explosion. The explosions reported by the Samaritan boat were a lot later in the sequence and described as small explosions periodically.

And you are going to have to cook O2 or air tanks for a while before they are going to blow. And there would have been very little O2 on board. Nitrox is fancy scuba practiced by only a few. It just gets you a bit deeper.

So I would still think the question is why the boat system did not pick up the fire and sound an alarm
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-06-2019, 06:33 PM
 
5,043 posts, read 2,263,890 times
Reputation: 7274
Quote:
Originally Posted by lvmensch View Post

And you are going to have to cook O2 or air tanks for a while before they are going to blow. And there would have been very little O2 on board. Nitrox is fancy scuba practiced by only a few. It just gets you a bit deeper.

So I would still think the question is why the boat system did not pick up the fire and sound an alarm

I'm going to be picky and it's not really relevant to the core issue...Nitrox does not let you dive deeper but it does allow you to stay at depth longer.

Keep in mind this vessel also held 1600 gallons of fuel. If it was only half full that is likely to make a big boom when it ignited.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-06-2019, 07:00 PM
 
Location: Lone Mountain Las Vegas NV
13,331 posts, read 5,106,731 times
Reputation: 5910
Quote:
Originally Posted by ditchoc View Post
I'm going to be picky and it's not really relevant to the core issue...Nitrox does not let you dive deeper but it does allow you to stay at depth longer.

Keep in mind this vessel also held 1600 gallons of fuel. If it was only half full that is likely to make a big boom when it ignited.

Nitrox makes it practical to dive deeper. I would routinely drop to 110 feet off Avalon. But I would just tour the bottom getting to 60 or 70. I was also always careful and would always make a decompression stop if below 50 feet or so.

I had a daughter who had the worlds best chest. She would dive to 100 feet with a dive master and when he had to come back up she would still have half tank.

There is no way the fuel went off. Likely still in the tanks. At worst some of it burned but I doubt that. Ever seen a good fuel explosion? Boats go airborne.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-06-2019, 07:26 PM
 
Location: Olympus Mons, Mars
5,849 posts, read 8,733,097 times
Reputation: 5981
in an absolute sense Nitrox would reduce your maximum depth due to higher concentrations of oxygen leading to O2 toxicity earlier, but if a good margin below the maximum recreational OW depth then yes, more time at a deeper depth without getting Narc'd.

I got Nitrox certified aeons ago but have dived with it only 5 or 6 times out of 300+ dives, not sure if it is popular, I just have not needed it really.

As for the original topic, we can't rule out shorted lithium ion batteries, I have seen those things explode and it's not pretty!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-06-2019, 07:43 PM
 
Location: Lone Mountain Las Vegas NV
13,331 posts, read 5,106,731 times
Reputation: 5910
Quote:
Originally Posted by k374 View Post
in an absolute sense Nitrox would reduce your maximum depth due to higher concentrations of oxygen leading to O2 toxicity earlier, but if a good margin below the maximum recreational OW depth then yes, more time at a deeper depth without getting Narc'd.

I got Nitrox certified aeons ago but have dived with it only 5 or 6 times out of 300+ dives, not sure if it is popular, I just have not needed it really.

As for the original topic, we can't rule out shorted lithium ion batteries, I have seen those things explode and it's not pretty!
We would have been at home on the Conception. I have a couple of years total on small boats mostly anchored off Catalina. My daughters dive with reasonable skill. Not a passion with any of them but the middle is a diving machine. She is a well stacked feminine creature. But below 50 feet is her country. She will literally shame the macho young dive masters who think they are good. Do not misunderstand I am not very good and use large bottles or multiple so I do not have to admit I am an air hog. But she can run around on a dive at 60 or 70 feet and still have more than half her air left after an hour.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-06-2019, 11:05 PM
 
3,152 posts, read 856,139 times
Reputation: 1795
According to the Santa Barbara County Sheriff, preliminary indications are that the cause of death was smoke inhalation not burns.

https://www.cnn.com/2019/09/06/us/ca...day/index.html
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old Yesterday, 08:41 AM
 
17,620 posts, read 10,542,325 times
Reputation: 29524
Dive boat crew say they repeatedly tried to rescue 34 people trapped below deck
Quote:
The captain and four crew were above deck and survived, and one of the searing questions was whether they tried to help the others before saving themselves.

But crew members have now told investigators in 'very lengthy, detailed, comprehensive interviews', which Jennifer Homendy, a member of the National Transportation Safety Board, called a harrowing story of the moments after the fire erupted on the vessel. It has also since emerged that the captain made two mayday calls, according to Glen Fritzler, the owner of Truth Aquatics Inc. which operated the Conception. He told Spectrum News: 'He made two calls. The second call where you can hear him say, "I can't breathe." That was the second call. At that point he had to jump off the boat. 'The other crewmen were already off the boat. The captain was the last to leave the boat crying to Radio Coast Guard.'

One crewman said he awoke to a noise - but did not hear a smoke alarm - and saw flames 'erupting' from the ship's galley below, Homendy said. He tried to get down a ladder, but flames had engulfed it. Crew members then jumped from the ship's bridge to its main deck - one breaking a leg in the effort - and tried to get through the double doors of the galley, under which the ship's 33 passengers and a 26-year-old crew member slept. A stairway and escape hatch from the bunk room both exited into the galley. With the galley's doors on fire, the crew went around to the front of the vessel to try to get through windows but couldn't. 'At that point, due to heat, flames and smoke, the crew had to jump from the boat,' Homendy said. Two swam to the back of the vessel to retrieve a skiff and rescue the remaining crew. They took the skiff to a boat named the Grape Escape that was anchored nearby and called for help and then steered the skiff back toward the burning Conception to see if they could rescue any survivors. None were found.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply

Quick Reply
Message:


Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Current Events
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2019, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top