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Old 09-08-2019, 06:25 PM
 
Location: Lone Mountain Las Vegas NV
13,377 posts, read 5,123,687 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oceangaia View Post
What!? Where was this? As crew, we are strictly prohibited from alcohol from the moment we board (and no boarding already with alcohol in the blood) until we step off after the trip. More than once I (along with all crew) have been alcohol-tested by CG.
Private vessels. I have helped a couple of new crews do the Baja Haha and done a half dozen deliveries up and down the leftist coast. Got years in total off Catalina and the other islands. Owned the first spot in the first row mooring in Avalon for a decade. That was a stink pot not suited to anything other than Catalina. But it was a most pleasant boat for that. Virtually all the other stuff was on sailboats between 20 and 55 feet.

And I have never been even a little loaded on a boat other than at a dock. But a single beer or a glass of wine with dinner is merely civilized. And I personally will always remember that few dozen times when I sat on the bow at dawn and had my beer while conferring with Venus.
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Old 09-08-2019, 06:40 PM
 
10,161 posts, read 4,761,491 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lvmensch View Post
Private vessels. I have helped a couple of new crews do the Baja Haha and done a half dozen deliveries up and down the leftist coast. Got years in total off Catalina and the other islands. Owned the first spot in the first row mooring in Avalon for a decade. That was a stink pot not suited to anything other than Catalina. But it was a most pleasant boat for that. Virtually all the other stuff was on sailboats between 20 and 55 feet.

And I have never been even a little loaded on a boat other than at a dock. But a single beer or a glass of wine with dinner is merely civilized. And I personally will always remember that few dozen times when I sat on the bow at dawn and had my beer while conferring with Venus.

I wasn't judging, I've just seen (meaning I was there) an off-duty captain caught intoxicated when CG boarded for an accident about 5 years ago and that was the end of that career.
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Old 09-08-2019, 07:09 PM
 
Location: NYC
13,326 posts, read 9,031,696 times
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https://people.com/human-interest/mo...breaking-post/

Victims of the horrible accident.
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Old 09-08-2019, 10:07 PM
 
Location: Oregon Coast
5,573 posts, read 2,255,227 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nell Plotts View Post
There is a reason why merchant mariners go through fire fighting at sea classes, you just can't call 911 or expect other ships to save you.

A fire on a boat is a disaster. What I heard is that the source was lithium-ion batteries for undersea cameras.
Well apparently that was this captain's plan for a fire on his boat. Jump in a dinghy and sail to another boat, and then call 911.
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Old 09-09-2019, 08:32 AM
 
Location: Monnem Germany/ from San Diego
2,277 posts, read 2,504,092 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oceangaia View Post
Yes, I agree nitrox does not typically require O2 as every liveaboard I've seen uses a membrane system. There is certainly a "sweet spot" (I'd say 60-100) for nitrox. No need for nitrox if you are shallower than 30' (I seldom bother if less than 50') since your NDL is virtually unlimited and getting bent is almost always an ascent rate issue. But hitting the deeper limits of rec around 120-130' requires a leaner mix of nitrox, which is certainly doable but the vast majority of nitrox used is standard 32 or 36. I typically use 27 when diving the Oriskany.



As for watchman, I had not known about a "roaming" requirement but there must always be a captain awake and on duty. I crew on a boat and the one job I would not want is night captain because it is dark and quiet and solitary. And typically very limited internet if any, at sea. I think they need to up the requirement to two crew on duty at all times, to minimize the risk of one falling asleep.
Remember they were at anchor, they don't have that many crew so 2 up at all times would not really be practical. The issue is was the watch schedule kept or did they get lax at anchor.

But by the time the crew on deck became aware there was nothing they could do.
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Old 09-09-2019, 09:58 AM
 
10,161 posts, read 4,761,491 times
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Originally Posted by GER308 View Post
Remember they were at anchor, they don't have that many crew so 2 up at all times would not really be practical. The issue is was the watch schedule kept or did they get lax at anchor.

But by the time the crew on deck became aware there was nothing they could do.
You prove my point. Maybe with an extra watchman they would have became aware of it sooner when there was somthing they could do? How is one more crew member being up not practical? If it means they need to add one or two crew, that's the price of safety.
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Old 09-09-2019, 10:30 AM
 
33,198 posts, read 16,971,199 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oceangaia View Post
You prove my point. Maybe with an extra watchman they would have became aware of it sooner when there was somthing they could do? How is one more crew member being up not practical? If it means they need to add one or two crew, that's the price of safety.
One can always come up with something that would have reduced the risk of a tragedy happening, particularly after the fact. It still has to be workable. And ultimately, all mariners would be safer at home in bed.
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Old 09-09-2019, 10:45 AM
 
10,161 posts, read 4,761,491 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dane_in_LA View Post
One can always come up with something that would have reduced the risk of a tragedy happening, particularly after the fact. It still has to be workable. And ultimately, all mariners would be safer at home in bed.

I'm not criticizing them for not having two crew up in this case, as you said this is about coming up with something to reduce the risk, after the fact. Another suggestion would be changes in battery charging - no charging in bunks, no charging overnight, etc.
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Old 09-09-2019, 11:33 AM
 
Location: Portland, Oregon
10,056 posts, read 16,844,974 times
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The risk of fire with lithium-ion batteries is not well recognized. Commercial airlines have only recently banned them in cargo without special packing.

Keep in mind the fact that those jobs are subject to the same drug use limitations and physical requirements as commercial truckers and that the vessel operators must be licensed by the Coast Guard. Yesterday I read that the tour operator's office was searched by Homeland Security. I wonder what they were looking for. This accident may reveal issues not related to the accident.
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Old 09-09-2019, 11:51 AM
 
33,198 posts, read 16,971,199 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oceangaia View Post
Another suggestion would be changes in battery charging - no charging in bunks, no charging overnight, etc.
If the root cause is found to be Li-Ion batteries on fire, I suspect we'll see a rule change. That's a new development. The USCG is sometimes jokingly referred to as a tombstone agency, in that they don't add new rules until something goes really wrong somewhere. Speaking as a sailor, I am actually in favor of that approach.

Shades of my old army firearms instructor. The very first day of classroom instruction, he held up the massive binder titled called "Weapons security regulations for combat troops" and explained that every single page in there was due to somebody's mess-up. (Not that exact word.) And that he had no doubt that there were more ways to mess up that hadn't yet been discovered, and that those would, in due time, get their own page. Coast Guard regs for small vessels are like that - it's assumed that mariners mostly act with an eye to getting back home alive, the Coasties only step in when something egregious happens.

The ships I sail on have the outlets in the bunk areas turned off by default as is. I suspect this may become locked down as a written SOP pretty damn quickly. (And then, 5 years down the road, some problem will pop up that could have been solved if only we'd had a live outlet. You can't win, going to sea. Breaking even is the best possible outcome.)
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