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Old 09-12-2019, 05:37 PM
 
Location: Lone Mountain Las Vegas NV
13,560 posts, read 5,170,063 times
Reputation: 6003

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dane_in_LA View Post
It is.

185.410 Watchmen.
The owner, charterer, master, or managing operator of a vessel carrying overnight passengers shall have a suitable number of watchmen patrol throughout the vessel during the nighttime, whether or not the vessel is underway, to guard against, and give alarm in case of, a fire, man overboard, or other dangerous situation.

From here:

https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/46/185.410

- applicable, as this was a T-class small passenger vessel. ("master" is coast guard speak for "captain").
I would think anyone with a number of passengers on board would maintain a watch. Nothing to do with regulations. One just maintains a watch on a boat when anchored. People get sick. Other boats screw up. Perfectly set anchors let go. Or a fire starts.

I would also think any such boat would have a reasonable fire/smoke detection system And maybe cameras in the salon and berthing area.

Someone suggested this fire involved fuel and electric. Unlikely. That is why a fire suppression system did not go off. One does not expect fires in the salon. Maybe in the galley...but this is an electric galley. So your fire defense is heavily in the engine room. Still should have been alarms though.
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Old 09-12-2019, 05:58 PM
 
33,290 posts, read 17,025,422 times
Reputation: 18135
Quote:
Originally Posted by lvmensch View Post
I would think anyone with a number of passengers on board would maintain a watch. Nothing to do with regulations. One just maintains a watch on a boat when anchored. People get sick. Other boats screw up. Perfectly set anchors let go. Or a fire starts.
Oh, agreed. The regs are essentially a collection of times people committed acts of bad seamanship in an egregious manner and someone had to write "Don't do that" in an unmistakable manner.

Sure, couples out in the Cal2-27 may not stand watch, or may rely on a GPS-based alarm. There's a reason we license masters for passenger vessels.

Quote:
Someone suggested this fire involved fuel and electric. Unlikely. That is why a fire suppression system did not go off. One does not expect fires in the salon. Maybe in the galley...but this is an electric galley. So your fire defense is heavily in the engine room. Still should have been alarms though.
Agreed on all points. But if nobody watches/listens to the alarms - moot point.
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Old 09-13-2019, 04:26 AM
 
Location: NJ
11,028 posts, read 21,664,159 times
Reputation: 9411
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dane_in_LA View Post
It is.

185.410 Watchmen.
The owner, charterer, master, or managing operator of a vessel carrying overnight passengers shall have a suitable number of watchmen patrol throughout the vessel during the nighttime, whether or not the vessel is underway, to guard against, and give alarm in case of, a fire, man overboard, or other dangerous situation.

From here:

https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/46/185.410

- applicable, as this was a T-class small passenger vessel. ("master" is coast guard speak for "captain").
Thanks for finding it Dane. Can't rep you again.

I guess someone will be in serious trouble.
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Old 09-13-2019, 08:48 AM
 
33,290 posts, read 17,025,422 times
Reputation: 18135
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roselvr View Post
Thanks for finding it Dane.
No worries. I'm halfway seriously considering getting some formal mariner credentials, this sort of information is going to be on the test.

Quote:
I guess someone will be in serious trouble.
Heck yes.
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Old 09-13-2019, 09:11 AM
 
Location: NJ
11,028 posts, read 21,664,159 times
Reputation: 9411
Photo at the link

Charred Conception dive boat ruins brought to surface by salvage crew




Charred Wreckage of Dive Boat Raised to the Surface as Authorities Officially Identify All Victims
https://www.google.com/amp/s/people....dentified/amp/

Quote:
The report confirmed that there were two smoke detectors in the bunkroom where the passengers were sleeping.

investigators were “taken aback” by the size of the ship’s emergency hatch...
“It surprised me how small it was and how difficult it was to access,”
Commercial boat operators asked to limit unsupervised cellphone charging after deadly dive boat fire
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cnn...ion/index.html

Last edited by Roselvr; 09-13-2019 at 09:21 AM..
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Old 09-13-2019, 09:57 AM
 
33,290 posts, read 17,025,422 times
Reputation: 18135
The escape hatch was repeatedly OK'd by the Coast Guard, so it's a bit hard to blame the operators on that one.
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Old 09-13-2019, 11:14 AM
 
Location: NJ
11,028 posts, read 21,664,159 times
Reputation: 9411
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dane_in_LA View Post
The escape hatch was repeatedly OK'd by the Coast Guard, so it's a bit hard to blame the operators on that one.
Agree. I guess it was ok for 1970's standards
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Old 09-13-2019, 11:56 AM
 
Location: Oregon Coast
5,615 posts, read 2,278,613 times
Reputation: 7363
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roselvr View Post
Photo at the link

Charred Conception dive boat ruins brought to surface by salvage crew




Charred Wreckage of Dive Boat Raised to the Surface as Authorities Officially Identify All Victims
https://www.google.com/amp/s/people....dentified/amp/



Commercial boat operators asked to limit unsupervised cellphone charging after deadly dive boat fire
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cnn...ion/index.html
I don't see how they are going to be able to determine the cause of the fire. There is nothing left, and a lot of evidence could have fallen off and still be laying on the bottom of the ocean.

I have a feeling they are just going to push new regulations for cell phone charging (which may, or may not have even been the cause of the fire), and not much else. Because any real solutions, such as better safety design of boats, will cost boat operators a lot of money, and we can't have that.
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Old 09-13-2019, 02:47 PM
 
Location: NJ
11,028 posts, read 21,664,159 times
Reputation: 9411
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cloudy Dayz View Post
I don't see how they are going to be able to determine the cause of the fire. There is nothing left, and a lot of evidence could have fallen off and still be laying on the bottom of the ocean.

I have a feeling they are just going to push new regulations for cell phone charging (which may, or may not have even been the cause of the fire), and not much else. Because any real solutions, such as better safety design of boats, will cost boat operators a lot of money, and we can't have that.
Totally agree with you that I don't know how they're going to figure it out; unless they are able to see where it started by what's left. I don't doubt some of it has washed away in the water
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Old 09-15-2019, 12:13 AM
 
Location: Olympus Mons, Mars
5,868 posts, read 8,758,069 times
Reputation: 6072
I've done a liveaboard in Thailand on a boat similar to the Conception so I can relate to the "sleeping quarters", i.e. the bunks... I think if a fire started it would be pretty tough to evacuate all people if there was a lot of smoke etc. The space is extremely tight... these are very small boats, not cruise ships!

In addition these people were asleep, by the time they realized what was going on their fate was already sealed.
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