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Old Yesterday, 08:35 PM
 
8 posts, read 274 times
Reputation: 25

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Quote:
Originally Posted by mascoma View Post
It's low, not high. Better treatment would lower it even more. But we send these people into prisons where they get abused.
.
Ok now I see. You sympathize with the rapist, Brock.

Explains it all.
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Old Yesterday, 08:39 PM
gg
 
Location: Pittsburgh
18,114 posts, read 18,475,251 times
Reputation: 11568
I will never understand this case as his blood alcohol level was even higher than hers, yet he somehow takes ALL the blame? Makes no sense at all and never well. So she gets to roam around free as free can be and his life is ruined because they both were drunk? Complete BS! People should be ashamed of themselves taking this kids life. Two drunks period! Next time both should be sober! Whatever.
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Old Yesterday, 08:44 PM
gg
 
Location: Pittsburgh
18,114 posts, read 18,475,251 times
Reputation: 11568
Quote:
Originally Posted by ClaraC View Post
I lived this, back in the 90's.

I've told this story on CityData before.

The Rape Crisis Center was asked by the local university to moderate a discussion forum with the Panhellenic Council (greeks) on campus. The leaders of the fraternities, and the sororities were involved. Date rape on campus was becoming a well-known issue, and the thought was to have the fraternity leaders lead the male students on campus in an effort to educate and try to stem sexual violence.

At the time, I was a volunteer speaker for the Rape Crisis Center. We had such very, very high hopes in this effort.

Game on.

We met with the men first, and the fraternity leaders said they were absolutely willing to help out. They recognized the problem that was becoming very public, date rape on campus, and wanted direction in how to lead. We talked about "no means no", and they said we get that. They said tell women to state no, clearly, and mean it, and we'll take that direction.

So we met with the sorority leaders. We talked about the need to say no in a very loud, clear voice, and move your body away from them and stand up. All good. Good to go.

So we had a meeting with the fraternity and sorority leaders, the Panhellenic Council, and it all went to hell. The men said we can't tell when you're saying no, you often you change your mind in a few seconds. The women said if we said yes right away we'd be seen by y'all as easy, so we have to say no several times, and let you try a little harder. At a party, the women said, we don't want to seem like prudes when you put your hands where we don't want them, so we quietly go along with it.

We, from the Rape Crisis Center, sat there and watched in wonder. These young leaders were making it clear, why campus rape/date rape is such a problem. (NOT ALWAYS. Sometimes it's completely clear. But we were hearing confusion on the part of the men, and the women were adding to their confusion by acknowledging they were purposely being unclear in their responses).

The problem is enormous. Sex is nuanced. Women who are interested in having sex often put men off a little, because romance is a give and take chase, and women who don't want sexual advances are often embarrassed to communicate clearly.

The popular song at that time, "When I say no I mean maybe and when I say maybe I mean yes" did come into the conversation. And also, the popular joke, "Don't. Stop. Don't. Stop. Ooh, Don't Stop" also was brought up.

I'm sorry to run on so long, but really, discerning legal consent is so difficult, and there are NO couples who are going to say "do you want to have sex do you still want it do you still want it do you still want it are you awake do you still want it you haven't moved in 10 seconds do you still want sex".

Which is apparently the standard Turner is being held to.
This case makes me sick! Brock had a higher blood alcohol level than that girl! Why is he only to blame? Heck he didn't even do anything. Why isn't she to blame as well? She got drunk too, but Brock is the only one to blame because he was drunk? His live is over and she gets to skip around as some victim. Yeah, whatever. Shame because Brock was going to be a doctor. Now nothing. Such a waste. She has no blame and he takes it all. Sounds about right!
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Old Yesterday, 08:46 PM
 
10,916 posts, read 4,427,870 times
Reputation: 27573
Quote:
Originally Posted by gg View Post
I will never understand this case as his blood alcohol level was even higher than hers, yet he somehow takes ALL the blame? Makes no sense at all and never well. So she gets to roam around free as free can be and his life is ruined because they both were drunk? Complete BS! People should be ashamed of themselves taking this kids life. Two drunks period! Next time both should be sober! Whatever.
I will never, either.

This case is bizarre and unsettling.

Turner has been completely thrown under the bus, and few seem to care. Maybe more would care once their sons were in his place, if this madness continues.
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Old Yesterday, 09:06 PM
 
Location: In my skin
9,155 posts, read 14,428,997 times
Reputation: 8997
Quote:
Originally Posted by ClaraC View Post
I lived this, back in the 90's.

I've told this story on CityData before.

The Rape Crisis Center was asked by the local university to moderate a discussion forum with the Panhellenic Council (greeks) on campus. The leaders of the fraternities, and the sororities were involved. Date rape on campus was becoming a well-known issue, and the thought was to have the fraternity leaders lead the male students on campus in an effort to educate and try to stem sexual violence.

At the time, I was a volunteer speaker for the Rape Crisis Center. We had such very, very high hopes in this effort.

Game on.

We met with the men first, and the fraternity leaders said they were absolutely willing to help out. They recognized the problem that was becoming very public, date rape on campus, and wanted direction in how to lead. We talked about "no means no", and they said we get that. They said tell women to state no, clearly, and mean it, and we'll take that direction.

So we met with the sorority leaders. We talked about the need to say no in a very loud, clear voice, and move your body away from them and stand up. All good. Good to go.

So we had a meeting with the fraternity and sorority leaders, the Panhellenic Council, and it all went to hell. The men said we can't tell when you're saying no, you often you change your mind in a few seconds. The women said if we said yes right away we'd be seen by y'all as easy, so we have to say no several times, and let you try a little harder. At a party, the women said, we don't want to seem like prudes when you put your hands where we don't want them, so we quietly go along with it.

We, from the Rape Crisis Center, sat there and watched in wonder. These young leaders were making it clear, why campus rape/date rape is such a problem. (NOT ALWAYS. Sometimes it's completely clear. But we were hearing confusion on the part of the men, and the women were adding to their confusion by acknowledging they were purposely being unclear in their responses).

The problem is enormous. Sex is nuanced. Women who are interested in having sex often put men off a little, because romance is a give and take chase, and women who don't want sexual advances are often embarrassed to communicate clearly.

The popular song at that time, "When I say no I mean maybe and when I say maybe I mean yes" did come into the conversation. And also, the popular joke, "Don't. Stop. Don't. Stop. Ooh, Don't Stop" also was brought up.

I'm sorry to run on so long, but really, discerning legal consent is so difficult, and there are NO couples who are going to say "do you want to have sex do you still want it do you still want it do you still want it are you awake do you still want it you haven't moved in 10 seconds do you still want sex".

Which is apparently the standard Turner is being held to.
Thanks for sharing this. Agreed 100%. And why is he being held to that standard? It's not because it's reasonable or realistic or even occasional practice for those making these demands.

And "no means no" is probably the best approach. I keep hearing about how dumb men are and never pass up "an opportunity to try and penetrate anything that happens to be next to him even if itís a potted plant". All the more reason a loud and clear "NO", followed by removing oneself from the situation, would be most effective.

Then there is the flip side of "if we said yes right away we'd be seen by y'all as easy, so we have to say no several times, and let you try a little harder". Men are expected to be assertive and take control. Even now in 2019.
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Old Yesterday, 09:14 PM
 
505 posts, read 108,518 times
Reputation: 473
Quote:
Originally Posted by carrcollie View Post
Of course I don't like forced fingering. It's rape when it is forced on someone. I said it was forced on me. You obviously think it's okay to force fingers in a woman's vagina against her will. That's truly awful that you believe it is okay. It's awful that you believe what Brock did was "foreplay". I'm not sure I even know how to respond to that.
There was no evidence of force in the Turner case. When Miller woke up afterward she reported feeling no pain. There was no bruising. She drank so much that she lost her inhibitions and consented to sex. That's not uncommon.

Quote:
Originally Posted by carrcollie View Post
Ok now I see. You sympathize with the rapist, Brock.

Explains it all.
The rape charge was dismissed because the exam proved that no rape occurred. Hysteria has been keeping people from understanding that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ClaraC View Post
I will never, either.

This case is bizarre and unsettling.

Turner has been completely thrown under the bus, and few seem to care. Maybe more would care once their sons were in his place, if this madness continues.
There is a group founded by women called "Save Our Sons? that has the same concerns. There is lots of good information there.

https://helpsaveoursons.com/?s=Brock+Turner

They mention a brockturnertruth website that was up for a while. It is long gone now.

Last edited by mascoma; Yesterday at 09:26 PM..
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Old Yesterday, 09:24 PM
 
Location: In my skin
9,155 posts, read 14,428,997 times
Reputation: 8997
Quote:
Originally Posted by gg View Post
This case makes me sick! Brock had a higher blood alcohol level than that girl! Why is he only to blame? Heck he didn't even do anything. Why isn't she to blame as well? She got drunk too, but Brock is the only one to blame because he was drunk? His live is over and she gets to skip around as some victim. Yeah, whatever. Shame because Brock was going to be a doctor. Now nothing. Such a waste. She has no blame and he takes it all. Sounds about right!
Was his higher than hers? I thought he tested at .16 and Miller at .22. I'll have to check. Either way, that would put him at twice the legal limit.
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Old Yesterday, 09:28 PM
 
Location: In my skin
9,155 posts, read 14,428,997 times
Reputation: 8997
Quote:
Originally Posted by carrcollie View Post
You obviously think it's okay to force fingers in a woman's vagina against her will.
How many people have you falsely accused of rape? Because you sure seem comfortable with it.
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Old Yesterday, 09:43 PM
 
Location: In my skin
9,155 posts, read 14,428,997 times
Reputation: 8997
Quote:
Originally Posted by reneeh63 View Post
I was responding to someone else's drama in kind...please keep up.
LOL....you think I was only referring to that exchange.

Quote:
You're not exactly snark-free
Correct. I don't, however, speak in snark and hyperbole all the time. I don't have to lie to create the illusion of leverage. Like the fictional "drama" you responded to in-kind.

Quote:
- and your case is not airtight so keep workin' on it.
You'll have to forgive me if I don't trust your judgment.
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Old Yesterday, 10:06 PM
 
Location: Sunshine Coast, QLD
3,376 posts, read 2,346,082 times
Reputation: 4857
Quote:
Originally Posted by PassTheChocolate View Post
She's a hero now. And sympathy and pity can be addicting.



I suspect it was exactly as you see it now. This isn't trauma at work.

Great post!!! I was a sexual assault victim at age 9. Not once did I even consider writing a book about my assault. Even if I did, I doubt the world would have much sympathy for a male victim. But then things were different in 1973 as opposed to now. Professional victimhood wasn't the vocational choice it is now, and victims of such trauma were more interested in justice and healing, as opposed to fame and $$$

Strange times indeed. That said, I wish her well
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