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Old Yesterday, 04:53 PM
 
10,962 posts, read 4,452,244 times
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I just googled her prom dress picture, and she doesn't look obviously pregnant to me. Like many teenage girls, by sheer will, they hold the baby inside and merely look like they've really let themselves go.

Some women look like they've swallowed a basketball - this young woman looks, to me, like a pretty bad case of freshman 20, when a college freshman goes off to college and comes home at Christmas having gained 20 pounds.

If I were her mother, it would certainly cross my mind that she might be pregnant - but if I just saw her out in public I wouldn't assume it. In the article, apparently people in the school knew she was pudging out, but apparently didn't realize she was pregnant. Full term, even.
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Old Yesterday, 05:18 PM
 
1,959 posts, read 956,106 times
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Originally Posted by phonelady61 View Post
Im wondering if this girl even knew what a placenta was ? you talk to some kids that age and they are like whats that ? seriously kids at 19 now are not like 19 was when we were that age . At 19 I was living on my own , paying bills , making a car payment and working a full time job . I know most 19 year olds are not doing that these days . im wondering if this girl even knew how she got pregnant .
She did not know what a placenta was when she was first questioned by the police. One of the investigators told her it looks like raw hamburger without telling her exactly what it was. Even in the interrogation videos she appears to be very naive and ignorant.

During the interrogations one of the detectives start out the line of questioning about the fire by saying, "Tell us about the fire." The girl looks confused and says "What fire?" She denies there was a fire and that the baby was burned at all for a while. Finally, she caves and says maybe she did try to cremate the baby. The whole confession was obviously coerced and she sounds confused and clueless during the whole thing. The fact the fire investigators and the expert ended up ruling out the fire but the prosecution pursued it anyway shows they don't care about the truth.

The education system does not prepare children for life in the real world. Learning about childbirth and placentas should be a basic lesson in school. She likely didn't even know she was supposed to clear airways and such for after having a baby. It is sad that her relationship wasn't strong enough with her parents where she felt she could go to them for help. Her mother basically encouraged the eating disorder, and it is likely the cause of the eating disorder.

She obviously needs a lot of counseling. The mother could probably use some as well.
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Old Yesterday, 05:28 PM
 
10,962 posts, read 4,452,244 times
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Originally Posted by yspobo View Post
She did not know what a placenta was when she was first questioned by the police. One of the investigators told her it looks like raw hamburger without telling her exactly what it was. Even in the interrogation videos she appears to be very naive and ignorant.

During the interrogations one of the detectives start out the line of questioning about the fire by saying, "Tell us about the fire." The girl looks confused and says "What fire?" She denies there was a fire and that the baby was burned at all for a while. Finally, she caves and says maybe she did try to cremate the baby. The whole confession was obviously coerced and she sounds confused and clueless during the whole thing. The fact the fire investigators and the expert ended up ruling out the fire but the prosecution pursued it anyway shows they don't care about the truth.

The education system does not prepare children for life in the real world. Learning about childbirth and placentas should be a basic lesson in school. She likely didn't even know she was supposed to clear airways and such for after having a baby. It is sad that her relationship wasn't strong enough with her parents where she felt she could go to them for help. Her mother basically encouraged the eating disorder, and it is likely the cause of the eating disorder.

She obviously needs a lot of counseling. The mother could probably use some as well.
The baby will take her first breath on her own, unless it comes out blue and is an emergency situation requiring resuscitation. The reason they clear the airways is because when the baby takes the first few gasping breaths, some mucous/blood in the mouth may go into the baby's lungs, causing pneumonia to develop in the next few days.

So either 1. the baby was born deceased or 2. she's lying about the baby born alive and breathing and most likely crying, or 3. The baby was born in an emergency situation, appearing dead, that likely could have been saved with CPR and oxygen but she assumed she was dead.
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Old Yesterday, 05:30 PM
 
1,959 posts, read 956,106 times
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Originally Posted by TinaTwo View Post
I donít know for certain if she murdered the baby or not. But she didnít do anything to help it live either after it was born or in the womb. She starved herself during the entire pregnancy so yes a possibility of still birth, but after the baby was born I donít think she did anything to help it breath or get things going, in addition to not calling for help yet again. When a baby is just born they need things done especially to start the breathing. Doubtful anything was done.
She was trying to hide the pregnancy, so it's not surprising she didn't call out for help. She starved herself during the pregnancy as she always had, and she didn't realize she was pregnant during most of that time. She likely didn't know how to care for it after she was born, but if she was stillborn then nothing could have been done anyway. It seems that the cord had been detached from the placenta possibly, so it could be the baby suffocated before being born. It is tragic situation, and even more tragic if the baby died because she didn't know how to provide care after birth. She might not even know whether or not the baby was alive when she was born. She does not seem like she is very intelligent. I do not think she should spend the rest of her life in prison or live with a criminal record just because she acted in such extreme ignorance. The state did not even prove she is guilty of murder and actively fought to keep evidence showing innocence from being known to those making the decision.
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Old Yesterday, 05:34 PM
 
1,959 posts, read 956,106 times
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Originally Posted by ClaraC View Post
The baby will take her first breath on her own, unless it comes out blue and is an emergency situation requiring resuscitation. The reason they clear the airways is because when the baby takes the first few gasping breaths, some mucous/blood in the mouth may go into the baby's lungs, causing pneumonia to develop in the next few days.

So either 1. the baby was born deceased or 2. she's lying about the baby born alive and breathing and most likely crying, or 3. The baby was born in an emergency situation, appearing dead, that likely could have been saved with CPR and oxygen but she assumed she was dead.
Well, if the baby was born alive and crying then someone would have heard. Babies are not quiet. She said the baby was white when she was born. Surely, if the baby was alive and crying, someone in the house would've heard and went to see what was going on.
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Old Yesterday, 05:41 PM
 
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Originally Posted by yspobo View Post
Well, if the baby was born alive and crying then someone would have heard. Babies are not quiet. She said the baby was white when she was born. Surely, if the baby was alive and crying, someone in the house would've heard and went to see what was going on.
I agree, in general, unless she smothered it immediately which does happen.

And I agree with you, she seems surprisingly naive, or ignorant, for an older teen who's in a sexual relationship and has average intelligence/is in mainstream high school classes.

I used to teach childbirth to teens, and did follow ups for 6 months on babies as a consultant for a nonprofit, and there was a case like this. 2 cases, actually. In the most eye opening case, a 16 year old girl was in full labor when extended family was over at the house, and the grandmother wanted to take her out back to school shopping - she'd gained weight and her clothes didn't fit. Well, the girl was in labor and she kept saying she didn't feel well but she didn't want to appear so unwell that they'd take her to the doctor. Finally, she went into the bathroom, and came out of the bathroom carrying a newborn in her arms. To hear the family tell the story, it was just, wild. I don't think that baby cried, she just appeared, in the living room, carried by the girl. And all the adults stared, speechless, for about a minute before anyone said anything.
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Old Yesterday, 05:54 PM
 
Location: California
1,696 posts, read 488,409 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ClaraC View Post
The baby will take her first breath on her own, unless it comes out blue and is an emergency situation requiring resuscitation. The reason they clear the airways is because when the baby takes the first few gasping breaths, some mucous/blood in the mouth may go into the baby's lungs, causing pneumonia to develop in the next few days.

[b]So either 1. the baby was born deceased or 2. she's lying about the baby born alive and breathing and most likely crying, or 3. The baby was born in an emergency situation, appearing dead, that likely could have been saved with CPR and oxygen but she assumed she was dead.
[b]

Yes one of the three.
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Old Yesterday, 06:02 PM
 
Location: California
1,696 posts, read 488,409 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yspobo View Post
She was trying to hide the pregnancy, so it's not surprising she didn't call out for help. She starved herself during the pregnancy as she always had, and she didn't realize she was pregnant during most of that time. She likely didn't know how to care for it after she was born, but if she was stillborn then nothing could have been done anyway. It seems that the cord had been detached from the placenta possibly, so it could be the baby suffocated before being born. It is tragic situation, and even more tragic if the baby died because she didn't know how to provide care after birth. She might not even know whether or not the baby was alive when she was born. She does not seem like she is very intelligent. I do not think she should spend the rest of her life in prison or live with a criminal record just because she acted in such extreme ignorance. The state did not even prove she is guilty of murder and actively fought to keep evidence showing innocence from being known to those making the decision.
I donít think she deserves life in prison either but I do think she needs to take some responsibility for her choices and at least be placed in some kind of mental health program where she can get some guidance and be made to understand the gravity of what this incident really was so that she can be better prepared in the future. She definitely needs some help. To be honest when I look at her eyes and face it appears that nobodyís home. Blank expression.
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Old Yesterday, 06:06 PM
 
Location: California
1,696 posts, read 488,409 times
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Originally Posted by yspobo View Post
He testified at one point. He had no clue she was pregnant. He was her date for the prom, and in the prom photos she is skinny and doesn't look pregnant at all. This was two days before she gave birth.
The father of her baby was the first boyfriend that she broke up with before the prom. True he said he didnít know she was pregnant. The prom date was a new boy sheíd just started seeing a few weeks earlier .
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Old Yesterday, 06:33 PM
 
10,962 posts, read 4,452,244 times
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Originally Posted by TinaTwo View Post
I donít think she deserves life in prison either but I do think she needs to take some responsibility for her choices and at least be placed in some kind of mental health program where she can get some guidance and be made to understand the gravity of what this incident really was so that she can be better prepared in the future. She definitely needs some help. To be honest when I look at her eyes and face it appears that nobodyís home. Blank expression.
That's how I see it too. Nobody's home.

Her parents appear to be COMPLETELY focused on appearances, and wanted a twiggy skinny cheerleader daughter they could brag about, it appears. And so, she tried to be that, but in between that, had sex and became pregnant.

Her repeated questions about whether she's "in trouble" are like what a 7 year old would ask.
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