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Old Today, 09:17 AM
 
Location: Upstate NY 🇺🇸
36,664 posts, read 10,857,268 times
Reputation: 34796

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Delahanty View Post
At 4 a.m., A deaf woman bypassed the speaker to order at the drive-thru window at a CA Junk In The Box, where she encountered an extremely rude, loud, and aggressive employee, who wouldn't take her order, and who mocked her. This confrontation lasted two hours.

Her son, who looks like he's 6'2", promptly began recording the incident. And she plans to sue.

1. Management responded quickly, apologized, and appropriately fired the employee.

2. The employee should have simply taken her order at the window.

3. The woman--or her son--could have gone into the restaurant to place their order. Drive-thrus aren't for everyone.

4. Who the hell argues for two hours?

This video has an ad, but is the best, and shows her son, who clearly looks able to have placed the order, himself.

https://www.nbcbayarea.com/on-air/as...559883672.html
Quote:
Originally Posted by hertfordshire View Post
She could communicate fine with him face-to-face. She can read lips, speaks fine and can be understood. That was not the problem. He refused to take her order at the window, and was insisting that she go back and use the speaker system.



And I think this is the point.

In the original link, her son is standing behind the reporter, signing for her, so she's not entirely proficient--or confident--at lip reading.

However, she can be heard on the clip of the encounter repeatedly asking for #8 on the menu, and the employee refused to take her order.

None of which changes my opinion that this was a planned...excursion, and that it was about a pay day bonanza--not food lol.
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Old Today, 09:35 AM
 
8,371 posts, read 5,471,020 times
Reputation: 9642
Quote:
Originally Posted by Delahanty View Post
[/b]


And I think this is the point.

In the original link, her son is standing behind the reporter, signing for her, so she's not entirely proficient--or confident--at lip reading.

However, she can be heard on the clip of the encounter repeatedly asking for #8 on the menu, and the employee refused to take her order.

None of which changes my opinion that this was a planned...excursion, and that it was about a pay day bonanza--not food lol.
Also, remember we don't know when the son started recording...
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Old Today, 10:46 AM
 
Location: Pacific Northwest
341 posts, read 146,035 times
Reputation: 1532
I'm commenting as someone who has grown up and been involved with the deaf community as my grandmother and great aunt both suffered from hearing loss (one from birth the other sudden at 20 years old)

First off, the deaf community is one of the most discriminated communicative-limited communities in the US (only behind people with speech impediments and those with severe autism). Since they are a minority most people don't realize how terrible people treat them; many times acting like the employee or assuming like many posters on here that they could have done things better but instead decided to inconvenience them or trap them. But I assure you that spending a week with someone deaf will expose you to endless amounts of harassment since people are especially mean to those they can't understand or they feel they can take advantage of.

As such the deaf community in particular has become very tight knit and have a reputation for standing up for themselves which comes off to others not understanding their frustration as problematic and even antagonistic. They've developed such tough skins that they will call you out and stand up for themselves rather than shy away and try to keep hidden like others with disabilities. Part of this is a combination of the bad treatment and the fact this behavior towards them has been going on since the beginning of human interaction, they are perceived as weak and they've fought hard to show they're not going to be treated as such. They can seem very touchy and even take pride in their disabilities as they feel that they've had to overcome more daily as their disability usually isn't physically apparent so it throws people off leading to negative interactions like this. In reality if they didn't stand up for themselves no one would address the issues they face and people like the employee would be free to continue their behavior towards people with the same disability or eventually harass a "normal" customer.

To address some of your concerns about the situation

1) Just because the son is in the car doesn't make him the automatic interpreter. In fact most deaf people only want an interpreter there if it's absolutely necessary for clarity; and even then deaf community members prefer to speak and communicate independently if possible. There is an emotional breakdown when someone interprets for you, even if it's words you've picked it's their "voice/emotions" that get expressed directly to the receiver. This woman could read lips and speak; in her situation her son was not needed or in the position to take an order or be her voice.

2) It is common (even encouraged in most places I frequented with community members) for deaf or hard of hearing individuals to order or do business in drive throughs by going to the first window as it's available to place your order. It doesn't mess anything up or slow things down; the placement of the order in correspondence of the line will be the same, any person driving up to the window behind them will be told to wait and it won't take any more time. Anyone with critical thinking skills could work around the situation, instead this employee got an attitude and them proceeded to discriminate and harass a disabled woman for no reason other than to bully her (I mean did he really think she would want to go backwards and simply order her meal because he yelled at her to...)

Nowhere in the interviews and articles that I saw did it have a 2 hour timeframe for the argument. But in the video it's obvious that the woman sat there repeating her desired order clear as day to the employee for many minutes and all he did was mock her use of sign language, laugh at her speech patterns, and scream at her. I suspect this employee was an assistant/night manager otherwise a real manager come over at the begining to stop the heated interaction. No one stands there and argues with a customer that long; you either close the window and walk away or call the police. Him standing there continuing to harass her even when he understood her situation and why she needed to order at the window shows he just felt like mocking her disability and making problems that no real professional would even think about doing.

This woman has a legit reason for feeling the way she does. If she said or recorded nothing the jerk who did this to her would probably be doing it to someone else and the waves of negative influence would affect his fellow employees, other customers, and the companies reputation in that area. People like to complain and say people are looking for a payout, but she's already got the biggest one you can expect from recordings like these...a toxic person was removed and fellow employees will have the chance to be better for ALL customers. Most of the time you can't even get that without suing a company that large so a lawsuit and exposure to the issues is needed. And at the end of the day the employee was absolutely wrong, out of line, and deserves more then getting fired. He owes his co-workers, the woman and her son, and should have to pay for the training costs the company will have to provide.
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Old Today, 10:59 AM
 
Location: A safe distance from San Francisco
8,832 posts, read 6,273,379 times
Reputation: 8911
Quote:
Originally Posted by musicfamly5 View Post
I'm commenting as someone who has grown up and been involved with the deaf community as my grandmother and great aunt both suffered from hearing loss (one from birth the other sudden at 20 years old)

First off, the deaf community is one of the most discriminated communicative-limited communities in the US (only behind people with speech impediments and those with severe autism). Since they are a minority most people don't realize how terrible people treat them; many times acting like the employee or assuming like many posters on here that they could have done things better but instead decided to inconvenience them or trap them. But I assure you that spending a week with someone deaf will expose you to endless amounts of harassment since people are especially mean to those they can't understand or they feel they can take advantage of.

As such the deaf community in particular has become very tight knit and have a reputation for standing up for themselves which comes off to others not understanding their frustration as problematic and even antagonistic. They've developed such tough skins that they will call you out and stand up for themselves rather than shy away and try to keep hidden like others with disabilities. Part of this is a combination of the bad treatment and the fact this behavior towards them has been going on since the beginning of human interaction, they are perceived as weak and they've fought hard to show they're not going to be treated as such. They can seem very touchy and even take pride in their disabilities as they feel that they've had to overcome more daily as their disability usually isn't physically apparent so it throws people off leading to negative interactions like this. In reality if they didn't stand up for themselves no one would address the issues they face and people like the employee would be free to continue their behavior towards people with the same disability or eventually harass a "normal" customer.

To address some of your concerns about the situation

1) Just because the son is in the car doesn't make him the automatic interpreter. In fact most deaf people only want an interpreter there if it's absolutely necessary for clarity; and even then deaf community members prefer to speak and communicate independently if possible. There is an emotional breakdown when someone interprets for you, even if it's words you've picked it's their "voice/emotions" that get expressed directly to the receiver. This woman could read lips and speak; in her situation her son was not needed or in the position to take an order or be her voice.

2) It is common (even encouraged in most places I frequented with community members) for deaf or hard of hearing individuals to order or do business in drive throughs by going to the first window as it's available to place your order. It doesn't mess anything up or slow things down; the placement of the order in correspondence of the line will be the same, any person driving up to the window behind them will be told to wait and it won't take any more time. Anyone with critical thinking skills could work around the situation, instead this employee got an attitude and them proceeded to discriminate and harass a disabled woman for no reason other than to bully her (I mean did he really think she would want to go backwards and simply order her meal because he yelled at her to...)

Nowhere in the interviews and articles that I saw did it have a 2 hour timeframe for the argument. But in the video it's obvious that the woman sat there repeating her desired order clear as day to the employee for many minutes and all he did was mock her use of sign language, laugh at her speech patterns, and scream at her. I suspect this employee was an assistant/night manager otherwise a real manager come over at the begining to stop the heated interaction. No one stands there and argues with a customer that long; you either close the window and walk away or call the police. Him standing there continuing to harass her even when he understood her situation and why she needed to order at the window shows he just felt like mocking her disability and making problems that no real professional would even think about doing.

This woman has a legit reason for feeling the way she does. If she said or recorded nothing the jerk who did this to her would probably be doing it to someone else and the waves of negative influence would affect his fellow employees, other customers, and the companies reputation in that area. People like to complain and say people are looking for a payout, but she's already got the biggest one you can expect from recordings like these...a toxic person was removed and fellow employees will have the chance to be better for ALL customers. Most of the time you can't even get that without suing a company that large so a lawsuit and exposure to the issues is needed. And at the end of the day the employee was absolutely wrong, out of line, and deserves more then getting fired. He owes his co-workers, the woman and her son, and should have to pay for the training costs the company will have to provide.
^ This is one of the better illustrations of why the ADA was one of the worst pieces of legislation ever passed.
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Old Today, 11:06 AM
 
21,475 posts, read 17,057,571 times
Reputation: 40056
Quote:
Originally Posted by cebuan View Post
Increasingly, employees feel dis-empowered to make decisions when trained routines fail. I would like to ask the manager how tolerant she is of workers making ad-hoc decision in unusual circumstances -- or just saying "We can't do that".

Also, drive in window clerks are just children, with not-yet fully-formed personalities. The US is the only country in the world that denies such workers the right to decide for themselves if they can have sex or a light beer, no wonder their maturity is retarded in the workplace.
Who is denying anyone sex? The age of consent is 16 in most states as long as the partner isn't more than 5 years older usually, and 15 in some others.


And we are not the only country to limit drinking based on age, ours is just older than many (although this article said some parts of India restrict to older than 25).


https://www.worldatlas.com/articles/...the-world.html
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Old Today, 11:18 AM
 
Location: Sun City West, Arizona
23,855 posts, read 10,823,662 times
Reputation: 20864
Quote:
Originally Posted by camaro69 View Post
While the employee was wrong, who the hell as a customer is going to stay there for 2 hours arguing.
I think that the deaf person here was trying to make a point...draw a line in the sand.

And I see nothing wrong with it.
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Old Today, 11:21 AM
 
Location: Sun City West, Arizona
23,855 posts, read 10,823,662 times
Reputation: 20864
Quote:
Originally Posted by Redraven View Post
I do not think the drive through is the place for a deaf person to place an order. Nor is it a place for a mute person to place an order. Nor a blind person. Nor a pedestrian (it is a DRIVE up, not a WALK up!). Nor someone who does not speak American English.
I wonder how many people were working that night who were conversant in sign language?

However, the employee was just as wrong as the customer. The manager ( shift boss) should have been brought in for guidance immediately. "HELP! I can not take this person's order, what should I do?"
Yes, to me also it seems like an entitled person looking for a confrontation with a payday at the end. I would love to be on the jury for that lawsuit! I would ask "Is it reasonable to require that every employer have on staff at all times employees conversant in every possible sign language and spoken language on Earth??"
IMO, no it is not reasonable.
Did you actually watch the video? I had no problem understanding the woman. But at the speaker she would not be able to hear the responses.
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Old Today, 11:30 AM
 
Location: Sun City West, Arizona
23,855 posts, read 10,823,662 times
Reputation: 20864
Quote:
Originally Posted by Javacoffee View Post
Who argues with a fast food employee for two hours? What transpired during those two hours? I understood her just fine. She wanted meal #8. Why didn't she use the ordering speakers like everyone else does?

This makes no sense to me. Was this another set-up by a "specially challenged person" who poked a sharp stick at an employee before turning on the camera?

I can't judge based on ten seconds of video and the news media's negative opinion of another business. We all know why.
She's deaf. She can't hear the responses at the speaker.
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Old Today, 11:39 AM
 
9,678 posts, read 7,330,245 times
Reputation: 12462
Quote:
Originally Posted by camaro69 View Post
While the employee was wrong, who the hell as a customer is going to stay there for 2 hours arguing.

This part of the OP's post I think answers that.


Quote:
And she plans to sue.

Now.. Let me preface this with Jack In the Box, at least here in the SC area is one of the nastiest places to eat there could be. I wouldn't go to one at any time of the day. Waffle House takes a bad rap sometimes, because.. Hey, it's not hoity-toity food, but it's decently good, especially at 4am.


I despise JitB.. But.. that being said. They reacted appropriately by firing the worker. So, my opinion, in addition to being deaf, she's missing a leg.. One to stand on in a lawsuit.

What this means at the end of the day tho.. Most likely every McDonalds, etc is now going to have a sign at the drive thru that says "Hearing or Visually impaired customers, please pull to window".. along with the menus at the drive thru in braille.
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Old Today, 11:52 AM
 
Location: Upstate NY 🇺🇸
36,664 posts, read 10,857,268 times
Reputation: 34796
Quote:
Originally Posted by musicfamly5 View Post
I'm commenting as someone who has grown up and been involved with the deaf community as my grandmother and great aunt both suffered from hearing loss (one from birth the other sudden at 20 years old)

First off, the deaf community is one of the most discriminated communicative-limited communities in the US (only behind people with speech impediments and those with severe autism). Since they are a minority most people don't realize how terrible people treat them; many times acting like the employee or assuming like many posters on here that they could have done things better but instead decided to inconvenience them or trap them. But I assure you that spending a week with someone deaf will expose you to endless amounts of harassment since people are especially mean to those they can't understand or they feel they can take advantage of.

As such the deaf community in particular has become very tight knit and have a reputation for standing up for themselves which comes off to others not understanding their frustration as problematic and even antagonistic. They've developed such tough skins that they will call you out and stand up for themselves rather than shy away and try to keep hidden like others with disabilities. Part of this is a combination of the bad treatment and the fact this behavior towards them has been going on since the beginning of human interaction, they are perceived as weak and they've fought hard to show they're not going to be treated as such. They can seem very touchy and even take pride in their disabilities as they feel that they've had to overcome more daily as their disability usually isn't physically apparent so it throws people off leading to negative interactions like this. In reality if they didn't stand up for themselves no one would address the issues they face and people like the employee would be free to continue their behavior towards people with the same disability or eventually harass a "normal" customer.

To address some of your concerns about the situation

1) Just because the son is in the car doesn't make him the automatic interpreter. In fact most deaf people only want an interpreter there if it's absolutely necessary for clarity; and even then deaf community members prefer to speak and communicate independently if possible. There is an emotional breakdown when someone interprets for you, even if it's words you've picked it's their "voice/emotions" that get expressed directly to the receiver. This woman could read lips and speak; in her situation her son was not needed or in the position to take an order or be her voice.

2) It is common (even encouraged in most places I frequented with community members) for deaf or hard of hearing individuals to order or do business in drive throughs by going to the first window as it's available to place your order. It doesn't mess anything up or slow things down; the placement of the order in correspondence of the line will be the same, any person driving up to the window behind them will be told to wait and it won't take any more time. Anyone with critical thinking skills could work around the situation, instead this employee got an attitude and them proceeded to discriminate and harass a disabled woman for no reason other than to bully her (I mean did he really think she would want to go backwards and simply order her meal because he yelled at her to...)

Nowhere in the interviews and articles that I saw did it have a 2 hour timeframe for the argument. But in the video it's obvious that the woman sat there repeating her desired order clear as day to the employee for many minutes and all he did was mock her use of sign language, laugh at her speech patterns, and scream at her. I suspect this employee was an assistant/night manager otherwise a real manager come over at the begining to stop the heated interaction. No one stands there and argues with a customer that long; you either close the window and walk away or call the police. Him standing there continuing to harass her even when he understood her situation and why she needed to order at the window shows he just felt like mocking her disability and making problems that no real professional would even think about doing.

This woman has a legit reason for feeling the way she does. If she said or recorded nothing the jerk who did this to her would probably be doing it to someone else and the waves of negative influence would affect his fellow employees, other customers, and the companies reputation in that area. People like to complain and say people are looking for a payout, but she's already got the biggest one you can expect from recordings like these...a toxic person was removed and fellow employees will have the chance to be better for ALL customers. Most of the time you can't even get that without suing a company that large so a lawsuit and exposure to the issues is needed. And at the end of the day the employee was absolutely wrong, out of line, and deserves more then getting fired. He owes his co-workers, the woman and her son, and should have to pay for the training costs the company will have to provide.

Then you need to look further, because you clearly missed the early morning news programs, which ALL noted the 2-hour incident. After which, one print site reported, they finally received their order
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