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Old 09-22-2019, 12:42 PM
Status: "Make Orwell fiction again" (set 2 days ago)
 
Location: Living rent free in your head
31,779 posts, read 14,166,122 times
Reputation: 22763

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Quote:
Originally Posted by usayit View Post
Does PG's side effects as a neurotoxin match up with the symptoms of the reported lung illnesses? Doesn't sound as convincing to me than the other argument that VG is resulting in fatty build up in the lungs....
propylene glycol is not a neurotoxin https://www.pmiscience.com/resources...vrsn=8a4f706_2
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Old 09-22-2019, 12:52 PM
 
Location: Coastal New Jersey
57,569 posts, read 55,776,227 times
Reputation: 68608
Quote:
Originally Posted by LilLisa83 View Post
Exactly! My dad successfully quit many years ago. I tried it but never got addicted. It's just so nasty having to be forced smelling that crap when people smoke near building entrances. I just wave my arms around an yell "pew!" And glare at the person.
And they laugh at you and your theatrics.

I remember when I smoked people acting like that and make a big to-do as they walked up to the building. We thought it was hilarious.

It's an addiction. Your glares aren't going to make a bit of difference.
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Old 09-22-2019, 12:54 PM
 
Location: Coastal New Jersey
57,569 posts, read 55,776,227 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SeaOfGrass View Post
And here we go (this won't be controversial at all)...





It just seems funny that you guys are terming it "sick," "disgusting," and "nasty," yet you willfully did it. Now that you've quit, you're looking down on those who do. Seems very common with people who quit something. "I tried it but never got addicted." Thank your lucky stars, I guess?

I'm not a smoker, but I never get the rage against them. Ex-smokers can be the worst. (Like ex-overweighters, ex-alcoholics, etc....)
I am an exception to that. I smoked for 35 years before quitting almost 8 years ago. I don't mind the smell, and I don't preach to anyone else.

I can sit with friends who still smoke and it doesn't bother me; in fact, I like the smell of fresh cigarette smoke.

I won't smoke again, though, not even a drag, because I know I will like it too much and be right back there having to have one and wasting my money. And of course, while I like the smell of a fresh cigarette, the stale smell on clothing is pretty nasty.
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Old 09-22-2019, 12:55 PM
 
88 posts, read 17,020 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2sleepy View Post
Vegetable glycol does not contain lipids and can't metabolize into lipids. Oil does that, i.e. mineral oil, vitamin d oil, but not PG or VG it's chemically impossible for either to leave fatty deposits.
You're simply picking and choosing words from this thread, and running with them. If I say a commonly used ingredient in vape rigs (and stage fog rigs) is propylene glycol, I'm not saying that's leaving fatty deposits. You have plenty of information over the past several pages not to conclude that I'm saying otherwise.

On propylene glycol neurotoxicity:
"Propylene Glycol produces excessive apoptosis in the developing mouse brain, alone and in combination with Phenobarbital"
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3366500/

Oils are what the glycols are there to dissolve. One of the questions may be whether oils are being adequately dissolved by the vegetable glycol (or the propylene glycol) before being dispersed into the lungs, where the oils could accumulate. As the solvents they are, glycols themselves are hazardous to lung tissue. Lung tissue doesn't like being coated in oils, or being exposed to solvents that dissolve natural fats in lung tissue. Either of those are just two of many hypotheses on formal investigations that have just only begun.
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Old 09-22-2019, 01:02 PM
 
88 posts, read 17,020 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by usayit View Post
Does PG's side effects as a neurotoxin match up with the symptoms of the reported lung illnesses? Doesn't sound as convincing to me than the other argument that VG is resulting in fatty build up in the lungs....
Where did I write here that it did? I wrote about it's neurotoxicity as an aside.
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Old 09-22-2019, 02:38 PM
Status: "Make Orwell fiction again" (set 2 days ago)
 
Location: Living rent free in your head
31,779 posts, read 14,166,122 times
Reputation: 22763
Quote:
Originally Posted by eastriver View Post
You're simply picking and choosing words from this thread, and running with them. If I say a commonly used ingredient in vape rigs (and stage fog rigs) is propylene glycol, I'm not saying that's leaving fatty deposits. You have plenty of information over the past several pages not to conclude that I'm saying otherwise.

On propylene glycol neurotoxicity:
"Propylene Glycol produces excessive apoptosis in the developing mouse brain, alone and in combination with Phenobarbital"
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3366500/

Oils are what the glycols are there to dissolve. One of the questions may be whether oils are being adequately dissolved by the vegetable glycol (or the propylene glycol) before being dispersed into the lungs, where the oils could accumulate. As the solvents they are, glycols themselves are hazardous to lung tissue. Lung tissue doesn't like being coated in oils, or being exposed to solvents that dissolve natural fats in lung tissue. Either of those are just two of many hypotheses on formal investigations that have just only begun.
I am not picking and choosing anything, I read every post on this thread. You clearly said that it leaves fatty deposits.

Quote:
Aside from the oily substances, and fatty deposits known as lipoid (it means fats) pneumonia, glycols are solvents. Lungs weren't designed to breathe propylene glycol, nor glycerin. (Propylene glycol is also a neurotoxin.) Lungs were designed to breathe air.
I can't find any evidence to support what you said. Your study about apoptosis in mice involved large doses of PG being administered intravenously, that has nothing to do with vaping, and does not support your theory that PG vapor is a neurotoxin. Now if you were to say that some flavorings are toxic when inhaled I would wholeheartedly agree with you, but that doesn't seem to be part of your argument.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/N...84/#sec_000074
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Old 09-22-2019, 02:49 PM
 
88 posts, read 17,020 times
Reputation: 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2sleepy View Post
I am not picking and choosing anything, I read every post on this thread. You clearly said that it leaves fatty deposits.
But you cannot point to where you think I wrote it.
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Old 09-22-2019, 02:53 PM
Status: "Make Orwell fiction again" (set 2 days ago)
 
Location: Living rent free in your head
31,779 posts, read 14,166,122 times
Reputation: 22763
Quote:
Originally Posted by eastriver View Post
But you cannot point to where you think I wrote it.
??? I already did, here it is again

Quote:
Originally Posted by eastriver View Post
Aside from the oily substances, and fatty deposits known as lipoid (it means fats) pneumonia, glycols are solvents. Lungs weren't designed to breathe propylene glycol, nor glycerin. (Propylene glycol is also a neurotoxin.) Lungs were designed to breathe air.
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Old 09-22-2019, 02:58 PM
 
Location: NNJ
10,014 posts, read 5,585,620 times
Reputation: 10921
Quote:
Originally Posted by eastriver View Post
Where did I write here that it did? I wrote about it's neurotoxicity as an aside.
Quote:
Originally Posted by eastriver View Post
Propylene glycol is approved as a food additive and it's still considered neurotoxic.
Perhaps I misread...
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Old 09-22-2019, 03:22 PM
 
88 posts, read 17,020 times
Reputation: 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2sleepy View Post
??? I already did, here it is again
I wrote, "Aside from the oily substances, and fatty deposits known as lipoid (it means fats) pneumonia....". As in the various insults already present to the lungs.

How in the world could you think that passage somehow translates to, "Including being oily substances,...."?
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