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Old 06-11-2010, 02:11 PM
 
Location: Dallas, Texas
2,889 posts, read 4,132,499 times
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Minneapolis is a neat city but I could never deal with the climate there. no way! Dallas is a great area with a lot more warm weather. I grew up in the midwest and like Dallas because you still have a midwestern feel here for somewhere that is so far south.
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Old 06-11-2010, 02:33 PM
 
864 posts, read 2,268,066 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by getmeoutofhere View Post
You are vastly overrating the reach of the UMN degree. It will not place you in the Dallas market.

T14 schools >> UT >> SMU >> other Texas schools >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>UMN.
The point is, for example, the UMN degree will fair better in any Texas market than the SMU degree does in the twin cities...or Chicago...or NYC, etc.
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Old 06-11-2010, 02:39 PM
 
Location: Purgatory (A.K.A. Dallas, Texas)
5,010 posts, read 12,831,669 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pappy97 View Post
The point is, for example, the UMN degree will fair better in any Texas market than the SMU degree does in the twin cities...or Chicago...or NYC, etc.

SMU would be a better bet in Dallas than a UMN degree. UMN is not a national school, it's a nice regional school.

Coming to Texas, he would compete with any T14 grad trying to find a job here, UT grads, SMU grads in Dallas, UofH in Houston, Baylor a little bit of everywhere, and so on.

Of course UMN will fair better in the Twin Cities or in Chicago, that's the market it serves. It won't get you anywhere in NYC.
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Old 06-11-2010, 02:42 PM
 
864 posts, read 2,268,066 times
Reputation: 488
Quote:
Originally Posted by getmeoutofhere View Post
SMU would be a better bet in Dallas than a UMN degree. UMN is not a national school, it's a nice regional school.

Coming to Texas, he would compete with any T14 grad trying to find a job here, UT grads, SMU grads in Dallas, UofH in Houston, Baylor a little bit of everywhere, and so on.

Of course UMN will fair better in the Twin Cities or in Chicago, that's the market it serves. It won't get you anywhere in NYC.
That's not what I said.

I said:

a.) a UMN degree will fair better in any Texas market

THAN

b.) an SMU degree would fair in twin cities, Chicago, NYC, etc.

Did I not make that clear in my last post? I am saying the whole point about saying then even with UMN you could go to Dallas just means that in the grand scheme of things, i.e. national portability. UMN trumps SMU by a large margin for national portability.

The point overall is that the OP should only go to SMU law school over UMN if they deadset in being in Dallas (or perhaps Texas in general).
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Old 06-11-2010, 02:46 PM
 
Location: Purgatory (A.K.A. Dallas, Texas)
5,010 posts, read 12,831,669 times
Reputation: 2414
Quote:
Originally Posted by pappy97 View Post
That's not what I said.

I said:

a.) a UMN degree will fair better in any Texas market

THAN

b.) an SMU degree would fair in twin cities, Chicago, NYC, etc.

Did I not make that clear in my last post? I am saying the whole point about saying then even with UMN you could go to Dallas just means that in the grand scheme of things, i.e. national portability. UMN trumps SMU by a large margin.

I see what you're saying now. That's true, even though trying to come to Texas with a UMN degree would be foolhardy.
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Old 06-11-2010, 02:48 PM
 
252 posts, read 507,684 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by getmeoutofhere View Post
You are vastly overrating the reach of the UMN degree. It will not place you in the Dallas market.



T14 schools >> UT >> SMU >> other Texas schools >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>UMN.




I do appreciate your candor. Can you justify your argument regarding UMN? UMN is one of the most selective schools in the country. Every piece of information I can find on it says that it places in the national market. Students apply there FROM a national market and many return home after graduation. I will conceed that SMU and Texas will place more of their grads in the Texas area, but any top 25 school will place grads nationally with relative ease based on the preceding points.



In regard to your other question, I did apply to Iowa and got waitlisted. I'm not entirely sure that I would pick Iowa if they offerred anything because I was hoping to stay where I graduate for at least a few years. Transplanting the family unit is a little tricky and I'd like to do it as little as possible.
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Old 06-11-2010, 02:49 PM
 
864 posts, read 2,268,066 times
Reputation: 488
Quote:
Originally Posted by getmeoutofhere View Post
I see what you're saying now. That's true, even though trying to come to Texas with a UMN degree would be foolhardy.
Agreed, but it's possible. More possible after years of practice. I went to a no name public school in another part of the country and I am here now, but only after years of experience.

UMN > SMU just about anywhere except Dallas (could possibly throw Austin and Houston into that exceptions list, but it's still a maybe).

OP wants to start out in BIGLAW and isn't dead set on Dallas or even Texas BIGLAW. Thus OP should go to the highest ranked school possible, which I believe is UMN. Not just school/rankings snobbery in the name alone, but also the higher school you go to, the less you have to do really well to get into BIGLAW. At least in the heydey people at the bottom of the class in Harvard were still getting BIGLAW offers (just not in major markets), because those firms still wanted precious Harvard grads for bragging to clients and the like.

EDIT: UMN is tied for #22. SMU is #48. First tier is usually considered Top 50, so SMU is barely first tier while UMN is solidly in the first tier. (The link says all top 100 are 1st tier, then jumps to 3rd. Previously it has been accepted that top 50 is 1st, 51-100 2nd, and then 3rd and 4th tiers.
http://grad-schools.usnews.rankingsa...ools/rankings/

For me, having gone to a much much worse ranked law school, I would have killed to be at #48, but no way would I pass up #22 for it, especially if it is/will be cheaper and I have no ties to Dallas at the moment.

Last edited by pappy97; 06-11-2010 at 03:00 PM..
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Old 06-11-2010, 03:01 PM
 
Location: Purgatory (A.K.A. Dallas, Texas)
5,010 posts, read 12,831,669 times
Reputation: 2414
Quote:
Originally Posted by nrogers1122 View Post
I do appreciate your candor. Can you justify your argument regarding UMN? UMN is one of the most selective schools in the country. Every piece of information I can find on it says that it places in the national market. Students apply there FROM a national market and many return home after graduation. I will conceed that SMU and Texas will place more of their grads in the Texas area, but any top 25 school will place grads nationally with relative ease based on the preceding points.

The only "national" law schools are the T14, really the T10 in this economy. Don't let the school fool, being a "selective" school doesn't mean much. All the schools in the T50 are pretty selective.

You really need to do more research into the legal market. T25 schools aren't placing grads with ease in the national market. Even some T6 schools are having trouble placing their grads.

You're buying the schools marketing campaign. It's a good school, but nowhere near a national school. You'll have great options in the Midwest, but they will fall off drastically along each coast and down South.


Have a look at this -

SMU actually out-places UMN in putting graduates in the NLJ250 firms. SMU is 28, UMN is 35.

THE GO-TO SCHOOLS
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Old 06-11-2010, 03:02 PM
 
Location: Purgatory (A.K.A. Dallas, Texas)
5,010 posts, read 12,831,669 times
Reputation: 2414
Quote:
Originally Posted by pappy97 View Post
Agreed, but it's possible. More possible after years of practice. I went to a no name public school in another part of the country and I am here now, but only after years of experience.

UMN > SMU just about anywhere except Dallas (could possibly throw Austin and Houston into that exceptions list, but it's still a maybe).

OP wants to start out in BIGLAW and isn't dead set on Dallas or even Texas BIGLAW. Thus OP should go to the highest ranked school possible, which I believe is UMN. Not just school/rankings snobbery in the name alone, but also the higher school you go to, the less you have to do really well to get into BIGLAW. At least in the heydey people at the bottom of the class in Harvard were still getting BIGLAW offers (just not in major markets), because those firms still wanted precious Harvard grads for bragging to clients and the like.

EDIT: UMN is tied for #22. SMU is #48. First tier is usually considered Top 50, so SMU is barely first tier while UMN is solidly in the first tier. (The link says all top 100 are 1st tier, then jumps to 3rd. Previously it has been accepted that top 50 is 1st, 51-100 2nd, and then 3rd and 4th tiers.
Rankings - Best Law Schools - Graduate Schools - Education - US News and World Report

For me, having gone to a much much worse ranked law school, I would have killed to be at #48, but no way would I pass up #22 for it, especially if it is/will be cheaper and I have no ties to Dallas at the moment.


Actually, SMU does a better job placing in Biglaw than UMN. See the link I posted.

No, SMU doesn't travel well outside of Dallas, but UMN won't travel well outside the Midwest.
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Old 06-11-2010, 03:09 PM
 
Location: Purgatory (A.K.A. Dallas, Texas)
5,010 posts, read 12,831,669 times
Reputation: 2414
You guys are way too hung up on school rank.
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