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Old 06-24-2010, 12:12 AM
 
Location: Garland Texas
1,538 posts, read 6,313,052 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bluescreen73 View Post
Actually DFW's expansion is going to be limited by its awful infrastructure. With "no money to build roads," TXDOT will continue to add capacity by building new toll-roads and adding toll facilities to existing roads until we get to a point where you can't go ANYWHERE without paying a toll.

When you combine that with housing appreciation, inflation, energy cost increases, and fairly stagnant middle-class wages you get a region that prices itself out of the market. THAT is when DFW will rot, likely from the outside in.
I've heard there are plans to make good old 635 full or partial toll.
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Old 06-24-2010, 12:19 AM
 
Location: Aurora, CO
6,150 posts, read 9,436,212 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MaryS80 View Post
I've heard there are plans to make good old 635 full or partial toll.
Yup. Every major highway project planned for D/FW for the next 15 years calls for tolling in some way, shape, or form.

635 is going to be dug up and toll lanes are going to be added beneath the existing main lanes. The toll rate will be variable based on congestion and could run as high as $1 a mile.

The Grapevine funnel (114/121/635) will have toll lanes, as will the Stemmons reconstruction from Lewisville to Denton. Then you have the new 161 tollway, Southwest Parkway (121 in Johnson & Tarrant Counties), the DNT expansion, Trinity Tollway, and Collin County is pushing for toll lanes on Central Expressway.

Not on the radar yet, but will be soon - 380 from Denton to McKinney. I guarantee you it will be a tollway by 2020.

Last edited by bluescreen73; 06-24-2010 at 12:30 AM..
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Old 06-24-2010, 12:35 AM
 
Location: Garland Texas
1,538 posts, read 6,313,052 times
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I can;t say its a complete shock. The DNT was only supposed to be toll until the money collected offset the cost of constructing it. Several years before 190 started construction there were no plans to make it toll. Heck if i recall correctly the portions that were first open about 15 years ago were not toll at the time.





Quote:
Originally Posted by bluescreen73 View Post
Yup. Every major highway project planned for D/FW for the next 15 years calls for tolling in some way, shape, or form.

635 is going to be dug up and toll lanes are going to be added beneath the existing main lanes. The toll rate will be variable based on congestion and could run as high as $1 a mile.

The Grapevine funnel (114/121/635) will have toll lanes, as will the Stemmons reconstruction from Lewisville to Denton. Then you have the new 161 tollway, Southwest Parkway (121 in Johnson & Tarrant Counties), the DNT expansion, Trinity Tollway, and Collin County is pushing for toll lanes on Central Expressway.

Not on the radar yet, but will be soon - 380 from Denton to McKinney. I guarantee you it will be a tollway by 2020.
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Old 06-24-2010, 05:28 AM
 
Location: Bella Vista, Ark
69,259 posts, read 79,447,244 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by northlakemetro View Post
Stopped by at Vista Ridge Mall in Lewisville this weekend and noticed that the mall is starting to look run down and dilapidated. This used to be one of the nicest malls north of Dallas. Sad to see it going downhill.
My take on this and I have been watching the trend for years: indoor malls are soon to be the thing of the past. people are changing their shopping habits. We were thrilled when that mall opened, we shopped there all the time and so did our daughter and her friends. We have since moved and our daughter says she hasn't been to that or any other mall except once in about 5 years. People are shopping at the outdoor mini malls (if you can call them that) like the shopping areas in Flower Mound for starters. They also do lots of online shopping and like to consentrate on store front developments more. We are becoming more interested in specialty shopping and discount shopping. I think the trend will or already is, the same with super markets.

Nita
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Old 06-24-2010, 05:31 AM
 
Location: Bella Vista, Ark
69,259 posts, read 79,447,244 times
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Originally Posted by Metro Matt View Post
In door shopping malls are a relic of the past anyways. Seriously, who builds those things anymore? The ones thriving today seem to be the higher end ones that have been around for awhile like North Park & the two Galleria's.
My feelings exactly. We saw it in NM and to some degree here. Our big malls (if you can call them that here) are the outdoor ones, with the brick walkways, specialty shops and a few larger stores like Dillards.

Nita
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Old 06-24-2010, 07:54 AM
 
Location: Dallas, Texas
164 posts, read 405,444 times
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I think that the extreme weather conditions in DFW makes the indoor malls more attractive than outdoor ones. Also, the outdoor ones do not have major department stores like Macy's, Dillards etc. The outdoor malls are more convenient, like a CVS or Walgreens. But the Walmarts and Targets continue to thrive despite of the convenient stores. Same concept with these newer outdoor malls.
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Old 06-24-2010, 08:25 AM
 
Location: Bella Vista, Ark
69,259 posts, read 79,447,244 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by northlakemetro View Post
I think that the extreme weather conditions in DFW makes the indoor malls more attractive than outdoor ones. Also, the outdoor ones do not have major department stores like Macy's, Dillards etc. The outdoor malls are more convenient, like a CVS or Walgreens. But the Walmarts and Targets continue to thrive despite of the convenient stores. Same concept with these newer outdoor malls.
It might make them more attractive to you, but if you do research you will see, they are not producing the business they did for years. Some do have major Dept stores I will add. Ours, right here in NWA does and it is almost brand new. The other side of the coin, again, research shows, massive Dept stores are not as well recieved as in years past. Speicalty shopping, yes, Target and Wal Mart shopping and the smaller stores are what people are seeking these days. Like everything in life, things change. Think about how our grandparents or great grandparents shopped, think about how much we all do on the internet today, and think about how busy families have become? We are seeing this with major clubs as well. Organizations like the Masonic lodges, Welcome clubs, Lion's clubs, womens clubs, all are going by the wasteside. I don't think all indoor malls will be out of business in 5 years, but 20, probably!!

Nita
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Old 06-24-2010, 10:25 PM
 
988 posts, read 1,894,601 times
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I think we are over complicating this subject. People in Dallas have "new syndrome" Spoiled with new. If an area doesn't have new homes, many think its a bad area. If an area has new schools, they are considered better. New freeway or roads....nice area. Shopping is no different. Most of the newer malls have been outdoor pedestrian islands. If someone builds a nice new indoor mega mall, it will be popular..........well as long as its north of SH 190.

And yes, the DFW boom will halt at some point. Thankfully the economy is very diverse compared to the rust belt, and the willingness to incubate international and national trade, and cross-sectional travel, so hopefully the blow will at least be glancing and not rust belt deadly. The lack of great higher education in North Texas does scare me a bit for its future. It needs to homegrow some talent, though its hasn't really helped other cities. So while inevitable, I think there are some things Dallas and Texas has done things that are right for its future and aren't changing anytime soon.
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Old 06-24-2010, 10:36 PM
 
3,535 posts, read 6,952,734 times
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Indoor malls may be cooler to hang out in and do a "shopping day" but they do not solve the problem of having to park aways out and still having to be out in the heat, cold or rain.

Also, at the town center type malls, you can park more strategically to your desination. Without having to schlep the kids past the candy store, the toy store, and the cookie store. you can hit the store you need to be at, get in, get out and be on your way.

The newer models work better for the faster paced lifestyles we are living these days.

There was a time when I did a lot of shopping at Collin Creek. Then Richardson Square refurbed and Kohl's and Walmart opened in N. Garland. I might hit Collin Creek once or twice a year after that - usually at Christmas. Once Firewheel opened, I hit that place 8 times between when they opened (October) and Christmas. And *felt* like I invested less time overall.
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Old 06-24-2010, 10:55 PM
 
27,447 posts, read 44,947,050 times
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I don't like to shop at Southlake town center because the stores I normally WOULD shop at are on completely opposite sides of the shopping area--
so I would have to drive/park/shop/move car/park/shop/ etc...
and finding parking in those outdoor strip malls is just as bad or worse as parking at an indoor mall--close or far--just depends on where/when you are parking
you

I think it depends on so many factors and I would say that the lack of sales in some areas is due to the types of stores not just the fact that they are in malls that has reduced their sales....
and the types of merchandise IN the stores

for years my friend and I have complained about the clothing that Dillards and Macy's are carrying--I don't know who their buyers are but -- for us--what they are buying does not work...

Book stores like B&N usually carry two types of books--what is on the best seller lists and books they are trying to get rid of at discount prices...
if you find a new author who has several books already in print and look for the previous ones--you have to special order mosts of the time--might as well order from Amazon or Ebay to start with...

malls used to have 3 or 4 jewelry stores in them--well--they have all gone bust now for the most part...

there just seems to be so many brands fighting for the attention of those under 25--and frankly I would be happy to avoid those groups when I go shopping
I keep on hearing that our population is aging and the coming generations are smaller in number--so you have stores chasing a shrinking demographic
am I the only one to see danger/frustration/shrinking revenue in that design?
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