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Old 12-23-2010, 11:49 PM
 
Location: Upper East Side of Texas
12,245 posts, read 12,326,002 times
Reputation: 4683
Quote:
Originally Posted by ClarenceBodiker View Post
Are you really going to try to compare Houston's one small line of rail to DART's megasystem that sprawls throughout two counties, and possibly four in the future? Yes, Houston's ridership per mile is higher. That's not difficult to do when your only line extends through the densest part of your city's core. Call me when Metro is serviceable to anyone outside of downtown Houston.
I'll be calling you pretty soon then.

The university line is underway as are the East End, North, & Southeast lines.
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Old 12-24-2010, 12:41 AM
 
Location: Texarkana
674 posts, read 791,309 times
Reputation: 167
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mister Nifty View Post
If not really careful in considering where is the best place to live in Texas, then one could find themselves making the wrong decision and being stuck in Houston. Houston lacks a lot of the advantages of the Dallas - Fort Worth area because it has always prided itself on being the largest major city in North America without zoning. Therefore, the city has never felt it needed a plan. "Bohemian" is a word often used about Houston when describing its neighborhoods. While street-lined bayous in Houston are pretty, they hide an ominous fact. In Houston, when the city floods during hurricanes and tropical storms, its business districts become swamps, the freeways become reservoirs trapping thousands of vehicles under water, and half a million dollar homes float away, as was the case when the San Jacinto River went out of its banks not too long ago.
A fact which is becoming more apparent with each passing day, the Dallas - Fort Worth area is beginning to pull away and seperate itself from the Houston area. The larger city to the south, nearly twice the size of Dallas, has been making the wrong decisions for such a long time now that it is having to resort to clinging to the past, to the old things that were once viewed as its advantages.
Indeed, large, tall buildings are still erected in Houston. Why? Well, first off, the Houston area is still heavily dependent on energy. Indeed, when its energy business is good, the area is brimming in money; however, when it is bad, the area goes into a depression (to the extent that it loses population).
When comparing the TOD development potential between the two major areas, Houston isn't just backwards in comparison to Dallas but fifteen years behind. As the Las Colinas business district in Irving stands ready to explode with transit oriented developments upon the arrival of its new DART light rail stations and nearby DFW Airport is about to be connected to downtown Dallas just a year after that, just how many years is it going to take Houston to connect to IAH?
Once again, as Houston has the larger population, in comparison, the city of Dallas is the true major city of the two.
While Houston tries standing firm believing that it is proud about the refurbishment of its downtown area, Dallas took a more difficult but smarter path in performing that task. A visitor might be surprised when visiting the two urban areas. As downtown Houston does have a lot of development inside its surrounding freeway loop system, it is almost totally cut off by elevated freeways from the eight square miles that surround it. This is not true in Dallas, however, as it has tended to concentrate more on developing the eight square miles surrounding its downtown.
As a result, downtown Dallas has poured out of its surrounding freeway loop in every direction, spilling out into Uptown and Victory Park, and then further north into the Turtle Creek area and to the northwest into the Design District and Dallas Market Districts, and then even further to the northeast into the Southwestern Medical Center. To the northeast and east, downtown Dallas pours into the CityPlace and West Village area and then into the Baylor Medical Center, the Deep Ellum, and the Dallas Fair Park areas respectively. As one could go on and on about the advantages that Dallas has over Houston, the better thing to do is to just let things play out. Let's wait until after the present expansion of the DART light rail lines are completed. Let's wait until after the deck park is built over Woodall Rogers Freeway between the Dallas Arts District and Uptown Dallas. Let's wait until after the completion of the new suspension bridge connecting downtown Dallas to one of the city's poorest neighborhoods. And let's wait until after the planned trolly to the pretty neighborhood of Oak Cliff becomes a reality.
Think about it. When the city of Dallas succeeds in refurbishing the surrounding eight square miles surrounding downtown Dallas, what will become of its inner downtown core? As developers know, this creates a paradise or a vacuum for real estate development.
Another advantage that the city of Dallas has which is sneaking up on Houston right now is the close proximity of Love Field to the greater downtown Dallas area. While the better located airports in DFW will tend to keep its buildings lower in height, they have brought shopping closer to the downtown Dallas area, in the case of Lemmon Ave. as well as creat new business districts about the area, in the case of DFW and Las Colinas.
When comparing Dallas and Houston, the true major city is the smaller one of the two.
(Please, when reading this, understand that my intended audience aren't those who already living in the Dallas - Fort Worth and Houston areas. In actuality, my intended audience are potential as in new future Texans as well as tourists coming to our great state.)
You said Houston lost population when it was in a depression but to my knowledge the city has never lost population.
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Old 12-24-2010, 08:51 AM
 
913 posts, read 968,643 times
Reputation: 149
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darbro View Post
You said Houston lost population when it was in a depression but to my knowledge the city has never lost population.
According to the city of Houston's own figures:
http://www.houstontx.gov/planning/Demographics/docs_pdfs/CityPopEstimates.pdf (broken link)
the city had a total population of 1,595,766 citizens in 1980 and a total of 1,631,766 citiznes in 1990 which means the area grew by 36,628 which, in turn, means that it grew by 3,662.8 people a year.
In actuality, as I recall, the city began the decade growing quickly, lost population during the oil depression, and then regained the lost population plus 36,628 by 1990.

Last edited by Mister Nifty; 12-24-2010 at 08:53 AM.. Reason: tweak
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Old 12-24-2010, 08:56 AM
 
Location: Dallas,Texas
4,523 posts, read 3,361,320 times
Reputation: 1264
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mister Nifty View Post
According to the city of Houston's own figures:
http://www.houstontx.gov/planning/Demographics/docs_pdfs/CityPopEstimates.pdf (broken link)
the city had a total population of 1,595,766 citizens in 1980 and a total of 1,631,766 citiznes in 1990 which means the area grew by 36,628 which, in turn, means that it grew by 3,662.8 people a year.
In actuality, as I recall, the city began the decade growing quickly, lost population during the oil depression, and then regained the lost population plus 36,628 by 1990.
They didn't loose any population.
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Old 12-24-2010, 09:04 AM
 
913 posts, read 968,643 times
Reputation: 149
Quote:
Originally Posted by Metro Matt View Post
I'll be calling you pretty soon then.

The university line is underway as are the East End, North, & Southeast lines.
While Metro does have a lot of light rail lines under construction, the city of Houston is still fifteen years behind the city of Dallas. What is pie in the sky for Houston is already a reality in Dallas - Fort Worth as Fort Worth is already connected to downtown Dallas by commuter rail and the university driven city of Denton is about to connect with its own light rail as well.
Figure that when Houston does finally finish its present expansion that it will only be catching up to where Dallas was before its latest expansion.
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Old 12-24-2010, 09:09 AM
 
Location: ITL (Houston)
8,758 posts, read 7,830,685 times
Reputation: 3057
Quote:
Originally Posted by ClarenceBodiker View Post
Are you really going to try to compare Houston's one small line of rail to DART's megasystem that sprawls throughout two counties, and possibly four in the future? Yes, Houston's ridership per mile is higher. That's not difficult to do when your only line extends through the densest part of your city's core. Call me when Metro is serviceable to anyone outside of downtown Houston.
See, you are just looking at rail though. Metro operates a highly efficient and highly uses Park and Ride system. If it was a commuter rail system, instead of buses using HOV lanes, Houston would get more "cool points" among transit nerds, but oh well. A lot of people don't know about it, but in the mornings, just watch the streams of ars head into the Park and Ride lots all over Houston's suburbs. Over 250K riders a day. Hell, the Katy Freeway HOV park and Rides handle as many people as the DART Red Line.

Plus, Metro has a BRT line operating now called "Quickline" along Bellaire. More streets coming up soon. This in addition to rail expansion in other areas.
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Old 12-24-2010, 09:11 AM
 
913 posts, read 968,643 times
Reputation: 149
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dallaz View Post
They didn't loose any population.
Look, these are city of Houston figures.
1980: 1,595,138
1990: 1,631,766
Meaning that the city grew by 36,628 people.

Either you aren't doing the math or you have a stone wall in front of your face. There is no way that the city of Houston's population could expand by only 36,628 in a decade without losing population.
In a good economy, the city of Houston will typically expand by 15,000 to 30,000 people a year.
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Old 12-24-2010, 09:14 AM
 
Location: ITL (Houston)
8,758 posts, read 7,830,685 times
Reputation: 3057
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mister Nifty View Post
Look, these are city of Houston figures.
1980: 1,595,138
1990: 1,631,766
Meaning that the city grew by 36,628 people.

Either you aren't doing the math or you have a stone wall in front of your face. There is no way that the city of Houston's population could expand by only 36,628 in a decade without losing population.
In a good economy, the city of Houston will typically expand by 15,000 to 30,000 people a year.
Keep in mind the metro area was still growing when the city was declining in population.
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Old 12-24-2010, 09:16 AM
 
Location: Up on the moon laughing down on you
18,516 posts, read 14,738,132 times
Reputation: 7231
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dallaz View Post
They didn't loose any population.
actually Nifty is right for a change. we lost a little in the late 80's
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Old 12-24-2010, 09:17 AM
 
Location: Dallas,Texas
4,523 posts, read 3,361,320 times
Reputation: 1264
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mister Nifty View Post
Look, these are city of Houston figures.
1980: 1,595,138
1990: 1,631,766
Meaning that the city grew by 36,628 people.

Either you aren't doing the math or you have a stone wall in front of your face. There is no way that the city of Houston's population could expand by only 36,628 in a decade without losing population.
In a good economy, the city of Houston will typically expand by 15,000 to 30,000 people a year.
Ok, who cares?
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