Is C.O.L. in TX really less? (Dallas, El Paso: incomes, costs)

[KantLockeMeIn]

I ran across a site that had stats on median household income in Plano of $147k too... I just couldn't find it again. It depends what you do and who your friends are as to what your expectations are for the area's income. I'm in IT and so is my wife... so it's not unreasonable for a dual IT family to earn between 120-250k a year here. If we were both nurses aides, we'd probably think 97k household income sounded high.

Quality of living definitely factors in. My idea of fun is building a new linux server for the home theater... so 74 degrees in the AC in CA, TX, MT, etc are all the same to me If I were into cycling or something outdoorsy, I'd probably consider a different place to live.

[aceplace]

Do California state income taxes compensate for lower property taxes?

No, the state government does not deliver huge sums of money to city and county budgets. The cities and counties just have to degrade their public services.

And the taxes are not necessarily lower. The rate is lower but the house price is higher, so the total tax bill is about the same or a little more.

Unfortunately, the California property tax isn't enough, since the price of everything is higher, even the cost of providing government services. Thus, the local services, such as schools, are underfunded.

Some people claim that Dallas people are more "materialistic". What does that REALLY mean? It means they have a higher standard of living... they can genuinely afford to give their children better cars, eat out more often in better restaurants, travel more, wear better clothing, live in better, newer houses, etc. Outsiders come in, see this higher level of consumption, and assume that it is due to personal self-indulgence, or that Dallas people are living beyond their means.

Do some people in North Texas live beyond their means? Yes. But the ones who do are very likely a small percentage of the ones who live within their income. The disparity of consumption between California and Texas isn't just a temporary spending spree that will burn itself out in a year or two... it's been going on for decades.

[aceplace]

Can you measure Dallas' increased wealth by looking at average incomes? Not really, because the prosperity of the DFW area attracts masses of low-wage immigrants who provide necessary but inexpensive services. Averaging the income of high-wage migrants from other parts of America with low wage immigrants from Southern Mexico will give you a number, but it has no relevance to a family moving from California to Texas.

[aceplace]

Why did I emphasize Southern Mexico in particular? Because the income disparity between Southern Mexican states such as Oaxaca and a Northern state such as Nuevo Leon is almost as extreme as a Mexico-USA difference. Parts of Monterey, Mexico look as prosperous as suburban Phoenix or Dallas.

[socketz]

Originally Posted by aceplace

Can you measure Dallas' increased wealth by looking at average incomes? Not really, because the prosperity of the DFW area attracts masses of low-wage immigrants who provide necessary but inexpensive services. Averaging the income of high-wage migrants from other parts of America with low wage immigrants from Southern Mexico will give you a number, but it has no relevance to a family moving from California to Texas.

Southern California has a substantial number of low-wage immigrants who provide necessary but inexpensive services as well. Most likely, many more than Dallas.

Also, where are the IT jobs that pay 125k-250k !!!! If that's an average salary for a Sysadmin type here, I'm in the wrong field. That job in a place like San Diego pays between 60-80k. Project Managers and other middle managers in IT may make 90k. I'd find it odd for IT salaries here to be that much higher on average, especially with the amount of outsourcing overseas IT has gone through over the past 10 years.

I know for my field (Electronics/Engineering), salaries are overall higher in Dallas, but the expectations for the region are also much higher so the regional sales dollars support higher salary expectations.

Also, I could see Plano supporting higher family incomes overall because the total number is only 270k or so and there are no real low income areas in Plano, so the lows in the average are more like mid-incomes. In larger samples taken from larger cities, you'll have a segment on the low end that consist of poverty stricken people and very low incomes. This is really similar to what I was describing for Irvine CA as well.

[KantLockeMeIn]

125k - 250k for a dual earner IT family is what I said

I don't know what a sysadmin here makes, but typically you'll see 90k for a senior network engineer... but 110k isn't out of the question. For SAP 80-120k isn't out of the question either. Then add in bonus, possible on-call pay, etc...

I'm a network engineer and my wife is a SAP security person.. so those are the only two I really keep up with.

[aceplace]

Originally Posted by socketz

Also, where are the IT jobs that pay 125k-250k !!!! If that's an average salary for a Sysadmin type here, I'm in the wrong field. That job in a place like San Diego pays between 60-80k. Project Managers and other middle managers in IT may make 90k.

As a programmer at Texas Instruments, I was making slightly less than $100K per year for 5 years before I retired. In that time, I saved a whole bunch of bucks. Granted, I was a consultant (i.e. contractor), as opposed to employee, but the money was there.

I'd suspect that the Mexican immigrants in LA are living in squalor compared to the Mexican immigrants in Dallas, as are the IT professionals. It just takes a while for news of relative salary vs COL to filter thru the network.

[socketz]

Originally Posted by twojciac

125k - 250k for a dual earner IT family is what I said

I don't know what a sysadmin here makes, but typically you'll see 90k for a senior network engineer... but 110k isn't out of the question. For SAP 80-120k isn't out of the question either. Then add in bonus, possible on-call pay, etc...

I'm a network engineer and my wife is a SAP security person.. so those are the only two I really keep up with.

ERP Project Managers/Developers have always flirted with 6 figure salaries. If you consult in this area and specialize in a certain type of business, say financial or engineering, you can easily make upward of 150k. Lots of travel when you seek this path though...lots, unless you live in a large city like LA/NYC.

[jojofree]

Originally Posted by SprintRider

Okay, everywhere I look, I'm told the cost of living is so much less in TX, but I just can't see it. Where am I going wrong?
My figures, based on my averages and numbers I've gathered from reading this forum:
CA:
Taxes: 3,400.00
Homeowners ins: 2,000.00
Cable: 1,200.00
Phone: 600.00
Electric: 1200.00
Water: 1,200.00
Gas (I live in an all electric home..will never do it again): 0
TOTAL: 9,600.00

TX:
Taxes: 8,000.00
Homeowners ins: 2,000.00
Cable: 1,200.00
Phone: 600.00
Electric: 4,800.00
Gas: 2,400.00
Water: 120.00
Total: 19,120.00

I'm told that TX doesn't have state income tax, so it makes up for the difference in the high property tax. On 70,000.00, I would pay 4,381.35 CA state tax. The total difference in living in TX vs. CA is 9,520.00. Now, if I subtract the 4,381.35 in CA income tax, the total comes down to 5138.65. That means that even taking the state income tax into consideration, it still costs over 5,000.00 more per year to live in TX. However, I do agree that the difference between the TX property tax and the CA state income tax almost becomes a wash. I guess the TX utilities are the killer here though.

What am I doing wrong? At best, I could change a few numbers and it MIGHT come closer to even.

According to a cost of living calculator, if I were making 70,000.00 in Orange County, I could get along at my same level of living making 42,723.75 in Dallas. How do they figure this?

Did you consider the costs of homes? You get ALOT ( all the bells and whistles) of home here in Texas for a fraction of what you would pay for in CA.

[ladycage]

My husband is in IT as a system admin, do you think he would have a very hard time finding decent paying work in TX? He is willing to contract or temporary assignments. I want to move to TX from NYC but he doesn't think he would find work. I am a administrative assistant but think that we can make it in TX even if we have to live on the out skirts. Please give your honest opionions. I guess TX salaries are cheaper but the COL is also and quality is much better.