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Old 02-12-2011, 12:07 PM
 
Location: Richardson
355 posts, read 465,126 times
Reputation: 367

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I've been to Deep Ellum yesterday, and that area has alot of potential to become something. Dallas should focus on re-using all of those old buildings. It's pretty dense, urban, and gritty too.

 
Old 02-12-2011, 12:15 PM
 
Location: At your mama's house
965 posts, read 1,875,842 times
Reputation: 1148
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spade View Post
The weather thing is the biggest excuse anyone can make to not enjoy a city. It's hot from June-early September. Use that to your advantage. Most cities have extreme weather conditions throughout this world and people still are frolicking like it's a regular day 70 degree day.

I don't know whether O_O's comments are either constructive criticism or just plain bashing. In fact, it's maybe both at the same time.
Multitasking is one of my gifts . I know people have a problem with what I say because of how I say it, but I couldn't care less what people think of me or getting hysterical because I tell it like it T-I-is...All jokes aside, my main point is that Dallas should focus on enhancing on the QOL of those who already live there and figure out how to stop getting their wig constantly snatched off from the suburbs trying to feed their egos before embarking on spending billions of dollars trying to attract tourists.

Weather isn't necessarily an excuse, because there are those who go to Chicago in the dead of winter to take advantage of that city's attractions. I wouldn't do it, but more power to them. I'm just saying that weather can be a factor that can hinder the city from becoming a full-blown tourist attraction, that's all. Las Vegas and Orlando are hotter than hell in the summertime, but they have things worth going to, so that doesn't hinder them as much as it should.

Houston has been taking steps in the right direction in terms of making their city more viable for tourists. They have a long way to go, but they have proved they are more adept at holding large events such as the Superbowl.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cbach
Why does the choice have to be between all business or "Las Vegas"? What about Atlanta? They have a good mix of business and culture. What about Nashville? They have the country music tourism but are also a good business city.

If you want bigger, what about Chicago? It's a giant city with large corporations headquartered there (remember when Boeing chose Chicago over Dallas because of QOL issues)? It also has wonderful attractions.

Also, heat shouldn't be a factor. San Antonio is hotter than Dallas and it gets far more visitors. Las Vegas is much hotter than Dallas and you'll still see people walking down the strip in 110 degree heat.

There should be no excuses. Dallas should focus on these things but it's not. If it spent 1/10 of the energy on tourism that it does on business, it could become a good tourism destination in 10-15 years.
You make good points. My main point is that there are QOL issues should take precedence over trying to create a bunch of crap that may or may not attract people. Victory Park is a good example of poor planning and someone writing a check their ass couldn't cash. Just because you build something doesn't mean people will come.

Chicago developed a lot earlier than Dallas did, and most of their attractions are by a large lake - something Dallas does NOT have. Their attractions are also mostly centralized in an easily navigable area with Public transportation. Dallas has the transportation, but will need to focus on centralizing things instead of following the spread-everything-out model that it did for years. Atlanta and Nashville's attractions are mostly limited to a few areas and have some national prominence (Country Music, Coca-Cola, MLK, Civil war, nearby Mountains, etc.). They're sprawled-out cities, but I'll credit them for have done a good job at centralizing their attractions.

But as I said earlier, Dallas needs to focus on the people who actually live there, establish an identity instead of trying so hard to pretend they're not in Texas, and build something worth a damn that will actually draw and attract people. I know Lakewooder will come in here and point out Fair Park, but most people don't give a damn about it being a large collection of Art Deco buildings (most tourists will think of South Beach in Miami before they think of Fair Park when it comes to Art Deco, and South Beach is a whole hell of a lot more fun to a lot of people) or the State Fair - walking around eating fried butter and going on carnival rides does not scream "world-class".

Revitalizing Deep Ellum would be a good start because it is something unique and special to Dallas, but I don't think turning it into a wannabe Bourbon Street is something the people there or the city of Dallas wants.

Last edited by Overcooked_Oatmeal; 02-12-2011 at 12:42 PM..
 
Old 02-12-2011, 03:30 PM
 
Location: Austin, TX
12,059 posts, read 13,800,375 times
Reputation: 7256
Quote:
Originally Posted by Overcooked_Oatmeal View Post
Multitasking is one of my gifts . I know people have a problem with what I say because of how I say it, but I couldn't care less what people think of me or getting hysterical because I tell it like it T-I-is...All jokes aside, my main point is that Dallas should focus on enhancing on the QOL of those who already live there and figure out how to stop getting their wig constantly snatched off from the suburbs trying to feed their egos before embarking on spending billions of dollars trying to attract tourists.

Weather isn't necessarily an excuse, because there are those who go to Chicago in the dead of winter to take advantage of that city's attractions. I wouldn't do it, but more power to them. I'm just saying that weather can be a factor that can hinder the city from becoming a full-blown tourist attraction, that's all. Las Vegas and Orlando are hotter than hell in the summertime, but they have things worth going to, so that doesn't hinder them as much as it should.

Houston has been taking steps in the right direction in terms of making their city more viable for tourists. They have a long way to go, but they have proved they are more adept at holding large events such as the Superbowl.



You make good points. My main point is that there are QOL issues should take precedence over trying to create a bunch of crap that may or may not attract people. Victory Park is a good example of poor planning and someone writing a check their ass couldn't cash. Just because you build something doesn't mean people will come.

Chicago developed a lot earlier than Dallas did, and most of their attractions are by a large lake - something Dallas does NOT have. Their attractions are also mostly centralized in an easily navigable area with Public transportation. Dallas has the transportation, but will need to focus on centralizing things instead of following the spread-everything-out model that it did for years. Atlanta and Nashville's attractions are mostly limited to a few areas and have some national prominence (Country Music, Coca-Cola, MLK, Civil war, nearby Mountains, etc.). They're sprawled-out cities, but I'll credit them for have done a good job at centralizing their attractions.

But as I said earlier, Dallas needs to focus on the people who actually live there, establish an identity instead of trying so hard to pretend they're not in Texas, and build something worth a damn that will actually draw and attract people. I know Lakewooder will come in here and point out Fair Park, but most people don't give a damn about it being a large collection of Art Deco buildings (most tourists will think of South Beach in Miami before they think of Fair Park when it comes to Art Deco, and South Beach is a whole hell of a lot more fun to a lot of people) or the State Fair - walking around eating fried butter and going on carnival rides does not scream "world-class".

Revitalizing Deep Ellum would be a good start because it is something unique and special to Dallas, but I don't think turning it into a wannabe Bourbon Street is something the people there or the city of Dallas wants.
If you look at some of the suggestions for making Dallas a better tourist destination, which ones would not benefit the locals as much as tourists? Expanding public transportation helps commuters as much as tourists. The Trinity River Project would bring families downtown to bike along the paths and would also give tourists a place to relax.

Pocket parks help keep neighborhoods beautiful and reduce crime and make more of the city "destination worthy".

Again, why can't you have both, not one or the other. You're going to have to stop thinking "pro tourism is anti business". That just ain't true. Tourism is a large part of business in cities like Orlando, Las Vegas, and New Orleans.

To give an example, I go to meetings in Dallas (I live in Austin) and they are usually successful, except the time that one was held during an ice storm a few years ago, in which people complained and then the event was moved to New Orleans the year after.

Dallas does small business meetings or conventions quite well. It doesn't host conventions the size that New Orleans does, but it does okay in that. A convention is kind of quasi-business because many people take in some of the amenities of the city (dinner, etc...)

The convention industry is large and profitable. By Dallas pursuing it they can have a bigger piece of the pie, employ more people etc... So locals benefit as well. In the process of luring conventions Dallas may be told "You need more" this or that. But this is something Dallas could compete in.

It may mean Dallas will have to start making streets more pedestrian friendly. It may mean that some businesses will have to be held back or their plans modified to fit the central vision. But it's possible. Like I said, Dream Big.
 
Old 02-12-2011, 04:59 PM
dgz
 
806 posts, read 3,383,114 times
Reputation: 706
Quote:
Originally Posted by cBach View Post
This is the reason why Dallas is not a world class tourist destination. The citizens don't want it to be. As long as you have low self confidence, you'll never achieve the great things. Aim high, the Trinity River Project is visionary and 50 years forward looking. Nothing else is so.

Or just continue on your path. But don't complain when people say Dallas is boring, or that Austin and San Antonio have more for visitors than Dallas (they do).

San Antonio has an identity and is specifically developing its tourism infrastructure. Austin has the most extensive park system in the Southern and Southwestern United States. I mean Zilker Park downtown alone is gigantic, and there is a greenbelt right smack dab in the middle of town. You can literally be shopping one minute and there's a trail from the parking lot to a trail that leads to waterfalls where you feel like you're in another world with 10 minutes. Those are the types of things that make cities unique and make people want to visit them.
But I don't see what is so 'visionary' about the Trinity River Project. It would just be a park. And cities all over the country have parks. Would it have a river walk? If so, big deal. So does San Antonio and other cities. When I include cities on my vacation itinerary, I'm not going there for city parks or river walks or shopping. I can get those things anywhere.

What draws people is the uniqueness of a place... the history. The feeling that important exciting things have happened there in its past... and that important exciting things are currently being done there for the future. If Dallas doesn't have a past to promote... perhaps it could try to establish itself as a forward future-thinking cutting-edge kind of place... cutting edge in terms of lots of things... art, technology, sustainability, urban development, etc. It could be a place where people come to see how things should be done.

But I don't know if the culture here could support that. There would have to be more universities and more importance placed on other fields of development (not just technology and business).

The unfortunate thing here is that the culture seems to be entirely focused on business, raising families, watching sports, and buying stuff--which does not create a culture that is interesting, stimulating, or will drive the future. You can import talent from other areas, but they are more the workers/engineers/spreadsheet interpreters... not the innovators and visionaries.
 
Old 02-12-2011, 05:42 PM
 
Location: Austin, TX
12,059 posts, read 13,800,375 times
Reputation: 7256
Quote:
Originally Posted by dgz View Post
But I don't see what is so 'visionary' about the Trinity River Project. It would just be a park. And cities all over the country have parks. Would it have a river walk? If so, big deal. So does San Antonio and other cities. When I include cities on my vacation itinerary, I'm not going there for city parks or river walks or shopping. I can get those things anywhere.

What draws people is the uniqueness of a place... the history. The feeling that important exciting things have happened there in its past... and that important exciting things are currently being done there for the future. If Dallas doesn't have a past to promote... perhaps it could try to establish itself as a forward future-thinking cutting-edge kind of place... cutting edge in terms of lots of things... art, technology, sustainability, urban development, etc. It could be a place where people come to see how things should be done.

But I don't know if the culture here could support that. There would have to be more universities and more importance placed on other fields of development (not just technology and business).

The unfortunate thing here is that the culture seems to be entirely focused on business, raising families, watching sports, and buying stuff--which does not create a culture that is interesting, stimulating, or will drive the future. You can import talent from other areas, but they are more the workers/engineers/spreadsheet interpreters... not the innovators and visionaries.
Totally agree, with everything you said except about the Trinity River Project. The Trinity River project is not the be and end all. Parks supplement existing tourist infrastructure which Dallas doesn't have. Point taken.

Look at New Orleans. The area near the Riverfront used to be old warehouses, and starting with the Moonwalk in the early 80's and the Woldenburg Park shortly thereafter, the Riverfront was turned to a park area.

Now, would people visit New Orleans because of it? No. But do people go there when they visit New Orleans? You better believe.

Look at what the park looks like nowadays:

Along the Mississippi River | NOLA.com

People just love to stroll along the river and enjoy the views of the mighty Mississippi.
 
Old 02-12-2011, 06:39 PM
 
Location: At your mama's house
965 posts, read 1,875,842 times
Reputation: 1148
Quote:
Originally Posted by cBach View Post

Again, why can't you have both, not one or the other. You're going to have to stop thinking "pro tourism is anti business". That just ain't true. Tourism is a large part of business in cities like Orlando, Las Vegas, and New Orleans.
I never said that Dallas should aspire to be a New Orleans or Orlando or Vegas. I said that there should be something built worth a damn to draw people would be a good start. The Trinity River Project is not something that people from worldwide would go out of their way to come to. It's something to help enhance the local QOL, nothing more, nothing less...

Quote:
Originally Posted by dgz View Post
But I don't see what is so 'visionary' about the Trinity River Project. It would just be a park. And cities all over the country have parks. Would it have a river walk? If so, big deal. So does San Antonio and other cities. When I include cities on my vacation itinerary, I'm not going there for city parks or river walks or shopping. I can get those things anywhere.

What draws people is the uniqueness of a place... the history. The feeling that important exciting things have happened there in its past... and that important exciting things are currently being done there for the future. If Dallas doesn't have a past to promote... perhaps it could try to establish itself as a forward future-thinking cutting-edge kind of place... cutting edge in terms of lots of things... art, technology, sustainability, urban development, etc. It could be a place where people come to see how things should be done.

But I don't know if the culture here could support that. There would have to be more universities and more importance placed on other fields of development (not just technology and business).

The unfortunate thing here is that the culture seems to be entirely focused on business, raising families, watching sports, and buying stuff--which does not create a culture that is interesting, stimulating, or will drive the future. You can import talent from other areas, but they are more the workers/engineers/spreadsheet interpreters... not the innovators and visionaries.
^^THIS Thank you for pointing this out, because these delusional homers do not get it. Like I said before, Dallas is not a city that caters to creative or innovative people. It's a conservative, business-oriented city of entrepreneurs (yes, entrepreneurs can be creative and innovative, but no, Dallas is not a city that the creative class comes to in droves), pencil-pushers, and corporate drones who do as they're told. There's nothing wrong with that, but to have true innovation, you have to have an environment which encourages that. I don't see that in an area like the Metroplex. This is an area people move to for jobs, making money, and buying cheap houses. There's not much room for intellectual stimulation or innovation.

Last edited by Overcooked_Oatmeal; 02-12-2011 at 06:48 PM..
 
Old 02-12-2011, 10:51 PM
 
Location: Austin, TX
12,059 posts, read 13,800,375 times
Reputation: 7256
Quote:
Originally Posted by Overcooked_Oatmeal View Post
I never said that Dallas should aspire to be a New Orleans or Orlando or Vegas. I said that there should be something built worth a damn to draw people would be a good start. The Trinity River Project is not something that people from worldwide would go out of their way to come to. It's something to help enhance the local QOL, nothing more, nothing less...



^^THIS Thank you for pointing this out, because these delusional homers do not get it. Like I said before, Dallas is not a city that caters to creative or innovative people. It's a conservative, business-oriented city of entrepreneurs (yes, entrepreneurs can be creative and innovative, but no, Dallas is not a city that the creative class comes to in droves), pencil-pushers, and corporate drones who do as they're told. There's nothing wrong with that, but to have true innovation, you have to have an environment which encourages that. I don't see that in an area like the Metroplex. This is an area people move to for jobs, making money, and buying cheap houses. There's not much room for intellectual stimulation or innovation.
I agree. Now the question is "What can we do about it?" or do you just want to leave the status quo as is. In other words, are you happy with the way it is and if not, what should be done to solve the issues?
 
Old 02-13-2011, 12:38 AM
 
372 posts, read 707,027 times
Reputation: 201
I have 2 ideas
1 Universal Studios would be wonderful, with it's theme parks, City Walk and a real movie lot.
2. A indoor theme park with the worlds largest mall- umm like Mall of America
 
Old 02-13-2011, 01:13 AM
 
Location: Plano, TX
770 posts, read 1,789,649 times
Reputation: 718
In order to become a world-class tourist destination, all Dallas needs to do is adobt the Dubai method, which consist of building countless 1,000ft. + tall 4 and 5 star hotels and overpriced luxury condo/apartment towers. Second, build malls and amusement parks that are bigger than many small U.S. states. Third, even though Dallas is landlocked, build several artificial islands on the largest lakes (i.e. Ray Hubbard, Grapevine, Lake Lewisville, ect.) and place 7 star resorts and marinas on them. Finally, build large indoor artificial skiing/snowboarding slopes that are soo big, that the experience mirrors that of actually skiing/snowboarding in the Swiss Alps or the slopes of the Rockies in Colorado.

If Dallas can do this, then it will be all set.

Last edited by Newbe10; 02-13-2011 at 01:26 AM..
 
Old 02-13-2011, 08:53 AM
 
Location: Lake Highlands (Dallas)
2,394 posts, read 8,570,972 times
Reputation: 1040
I'm still not biting on the trinity river project. It's one park that would have way more money spent on it than building 20 pocket parks - and I am willing to bet 20 pocket parks would get way more usage. People aren't going to drive from very far to go to TR park. I just don't see it - yet anyhow. The vision painted by the promoters is definitely more of a tourist destination, but as you can probably tell by my past posts, I am a firm believer in improving QoL of it's citizens well before tourism.

There are lots of new parks downtown and lots of improvements going on throughout parks in Dallas, so I think City Hall has heard that part - but what I don't think City Hall has figured out is that it can't build every project and be everything to everyone. Let's start by having a bit more focus on it's citizens. I personally think that only Angela Hunt understands this concept. While I don't want her to become the next mayor - as I think the next mayor is screwed because the stupid moves and financial position the current mayor is leaving Dallas in, I do think she'd be an awesome mayor down the road.

Brian
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