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I wonder how many whites got there job based on "White Privilege". Please don't tell me every white person is qualified for their job position.
God bless City-data family and I enjoyed my time on this site, but it’s time for me to move on from this site. This isn't healthy for me as individual it’s hard enough dealing with racial bias and stereotypes but it’s another thing to be criticized for making something of myself. A positive rare well written article by the Dallas Morning News about the black community has spiraled into nothing but hate. People like dubeaux has instilled in the black community for years that we are inferior to whites and incapable of learning. This stigma still has a grip on our community till this very day but things are changing in America for the better and the black community thankfully is progressing and breaking down barriers.
There is no need to leave! We actually appreciate the diversity of viewpoints you bring to the discussion.
There is no need to leave! We actually appreciate the diversity of viewpoints you bring to the discussion.
Stigma? No.
Life ain't fair.
You can have whatever you want as long as you're willing to do what it takes to get it.
Nothing worthwhile is gained easily.
Blacks need to look into themselves and decide if current problems are echoes of the past or internalized perpetuation by ourselves.
If our (your) children don't succeed, it's their parents fault. Even with the playing field not being fair. We must be will to sacrifice for and raise our children right.
As would be typical on CD, and internet forums in general, everyone is overreacting. I doubt the OP actually hates the races in question. I don't hate those races either, and I treat people based on how they act. But what the OP is complaining about is diversity just for the sake of diversity. Unless we have some common thread that has nothing to do with race, like say freedom, or Christianity or whatever it may be, the diversity just by itself won't work out. The OP was trying to make some legitimate points about the topics like this over the past 50+ years, without sounding like a total redneck, and everyone just bumrushed him, as expected. He was really complaining about affirmative action, which is itself racism, just of a different kind. Affirmative action, as in pushing other races into higher positions (forcing it that way on businesses or whoever) ONLY on the merit of they happen to be a different race. That is racism. There is a difference between equal opportunities and equal outcomes. The equal outcomes are being forced. Equal opportunities is where everyone regardless of race is under the same set of laws. That was accomplished when segregation was lifted.
I am however curious as to how many black people in middle class jobs got there by affirmative action and how many got there based on actual merits. I'd like to say half and half. In my workforce I've met some really awesome blacks and hispanics that clearly deserve their jobs (because of how awesomely they act). I've also met quite a few in other workplaces that were clearly just there because of some race-based giveaway, and would likely be fired if they were white acting the way they do.
Forcing everyone to be happy and "diverse" together isn't just going to accomplish it. Any "good feelings" will be fleeting and artificial anyway. If different races and cultures are going to exist in the same place happily, there need to be common things and a common goal, perhaps getting rid of the insane government we have now who knows... The way the liberals are pushing things, it's really just blame the white guy for all the problems, while providing no real solutions. No, taking from the white man is not a solution. Welfare to blacks and hispanics isn't a solution either, it keeps them dependent on handouts giving them no incentive to work harder and improve their job-related skills. In effect, it's just hurting them, while massively increasing the size and scope of government (which is what liberals want anyway). Welfare (regardless of race) has failed Europe, and they're finally beginning to realize it. Though the necessary changes over there will be difficult.
The OP may not have presented himself the best way, but wow, it's really hard to say ANYTHING (except something really probama or whatever that comes off quite phony) about race or similar topics without people from the left calling you a backwards racist. So I applaud the OP for at least trying to say something different like that, even if the presentation could be better. As for "diversity is nothing to celebrate," it can be when the diverse peoples actually have a way to get along, and something to actually celebrate. When people are forced together, it may or may not happen. That doesn't mean they're going to be out killing each other either. And diversity is not just a race thing, it can be based on a whole bunch of other different factors. Do jocks and scene kids get along in high school? Not really, but they don't kill each other either. But you don't usually see them hanging out with each other.
You have a vague grasp of the subject but your understanding is lacking. You think HALF of all minorities got their jobs because of Affirmative action? Really? So the crew leader at McDonalds and the guy at Lowes? Come on. Some jobs don't carry the cache to weed out people who suck, regardless of race.
And while it's not AA did the white guy get the job because of mom or dad, or they knew his brother and he was a 'good guy' a 'John Smith-type' 'relatable'?
University of Michigan, class of 1997 here. And no automatic admissions as I came from a prep school similar to your St. Marks. But, I'm well acquainted with the case.
Jury nullification may exist, but no different that a white jury not convicting a white person of a crime against a black. And let's leave the disparate drug sentencing between cocaine and crack alone.
Statistics, can be skewed. Are skewed. Are we dealing with mean, median, mode? Have we controlled for age, SES, quality of education?
Is there a correlation between the number of Blacks in a school and quality of the school and SES? For instance, if the schools with violence and majority black are also proverty-prone, which variable do you blame? My wife is also a doctorate-level statistician who consults for DISD. Low SES usually correlates with violence and lower test scores. Unfortunately many blacks, latinos are in these low SES schools. Is violence a side-effect of the poverty these students endure or is it just innate to blacks?
Asians. Once called the model-minority, integrate more readily into society than Blacks. There is no stereotypical fear of the hyper-masculine Asian buck for men to worry about. Also, there is no 'thug-culture' prevalent with Asians by and large, although gangs do exist in poorer areas.
I am no different than anyone else black or white. I came up in Detroit. A non-magnet-school. Single-parent household. But my mother stressed education. I was fortunate enough to be smart and that was my way out.
Some kids however don't have that family backing. Some kids don't excel at anything and thus a vicious cycle repeats itself. But it is a factor of poverty, not race.
Slavery happened. It's over. I'm over it. I would never cry racism, but are times when folks just don't like you because of your color.
Affirmative action? Ever heard of legacies? You got into H/Y/P because your dad went there? That takes a spot from an otherwise worthy candidate?
I'm conservative, pro-gun, pro-family, against the welfare state, because I know you can overcome poverty w/o a handout. Still in my training in the Upper Peninsula of Michigan, crystal meth, not crack is the drug, attrition rates are ridiculously high in the schools. There is gang violence and massive teen pregnancy. These kids are up north w/o an easy way out, poor and not alot of hope. They are also white.
I would hope you have experienced enough in life to avoid broad generalizations and realize that many times people can't help but be a product of their environments.
You are a true minority; not by color, but by the fact that you were raised in a single parent household and achieved great things. It seems like you were predisposed for success, mainly because of your mom. What would have happened if your mom didn't push you in school? Possibly the same achievement, but we will never know. I would argue that at least part of your success comes from being pushed. In all honesty, if I didn't have parents who encouraged and steered me in the right direction, I shudder to think how I would have turned out. I was never much for formal education or standardized test scores. Now that I look back, I'm so thankful for my parents. Maturity takes time; until then, we have to rely on our parents to help us out.
However, I would argue that many kids who are a result of single-parent households aren't so fortunate. And to me, it appears that most of this happens in the black community. In my experiences, my black friends who had both parents at home are currently much more successful than my black friends who didn't. Same goes for my white friends.
I remember one day when I was working my retail job, two of my black co-workers were talking about one of their girlfriends and how to not let her get away. The other co-worker was serious when he said, "get her pregnant". I was shocked. Then I realized that this same guy also had a child out of wedlock. FORTUNATELY (and he said this himself), his parents were loaded so he never had to truly reap the consequences of his actions. How crazy is that, though? Although I never heard white people encourage this behavior, I'm sure it goes on. It may just be less prevalent in the white community. Not trying to stir up controversy, but it is my viewpoint. If we had more two parent households, things would look much better, regardless of race or color.
As would be typical on CD, and internet forums in general, everyone is overreacting. I doubt the OP actually hates the races in question. I don't hate those races either, and I treat people based on how they act. But what the OP is complaining about is diversity just for the sake of diversity. Unless we have some common thread that has nothing to do with race, like say freedom, or Christianity or whatever it may be, the diversity just by itself won't work out. The OP was trying to make some legitimate points about the topics like this over the past 50+ years, without sounding like a total redneck, and everyone just bumrushed him, as expected. He was really complaining about affirmative action, which is itself racism, just of a different kind. Affirmative action, as in pushing other races into higher positions (forcing it that way on businesses or whoever) ONLY on the merit of they happen to be a different race. That is racism. There is a difference between equal opportunities and equal outcomes. The equal outcomes are being forced. Equal opportunities is where everyone regardless of race is under the same set of laws. That was accomplished when segregation was lifted.
I am however curious as to how many black people in middle class jobs got there by affirmative action and how many got there based on actual merits. I'd like to say half and half. In my workforce I've met some really awesome blacks and hispanics that clearly deserve their jobs (because of how awesomely they act). I've also met quite a few in other workplaces that were clearly just there because of some race-based giveaway, and would likely be fired if they were white acting the way they do.
Forcing everyone to be happy and "diverse" together isn't just going to accomplish it. Any "good feelings" will be fleeting and artificial anyway. If different races and cultures are going to exist in the same place happily, there need to be common things and a common goal, perhaps getting rid of the insane government we have now who knows... The way the liberals are pushing things, it's really just blame the white guy for all the problems, while providing no real solutions. No, taking from the white man is not a solution. Welfare to blacks and hispanics isn't a solution either, it keeps them dependent on handouts giving them no incentive to work harder and improve their job-related skills. In effect, it's just hurting them, while massively increasing the size and scope of government (which is what liberals want anyway). Welfare (regardless of race) has failed Europe, and they're finally beginning to realize it. Though the necessary changes over there will be difficult.
The OP may not have presented himself the best way, but wow, it's really hard to say ANYTHING (except something really probama or whatever that comes off quite phony) about race or similar topics without people from the left calling you a backwards racist. So I applaud the OP for at least trying to say something different like that, even if the presentation could be better. As for "diversity is nothing to celebrate," it can be when the diverse peoples actually have a way to get along, and something to actually celebrate. When people are forced together, it may or may not happen. That doesn't mean they're going to be out killing each other either. And diversity is not just a race thing, it can be based on a whole bunch of other different factors. Do jocks and scene kids get along in high school? Not really, but they don't kill each other either. But you don't usually see them hanging out with each other.
I am against affirmative action for the very reason that it takes away from my own achievements. I'd rant some more but I'm being called to the OR, and there's no AA to help me hold the 15-blade...some people.
I mean, what can you say? In today's post-Obama world I guess it's only fair to pretend that white men are a special group that are subjected to as much disenfranchisement and racial discrimination and profiling as minorities are.
While we're at it, let's go ahead and award reparations to the descendants of slave owners for their families' livelihoods being snatched away.
Alternatives? But what about my personal liberties?
Quote:
Originally Posted by GrandviewGloria
Apparently, the OP is being sent off by the masses, to drink the Hemlock, for telling the ugly truth.
Meanwhile, the brainwashed masses are obediently drinking the Diversity Kool-Aid, while thinking their lovely delusional thoughts.
This seems to be an overgeneralized statement though it does hint at the frustrations many feel about blind allegience to the powers that be.
I cited the diversity that my daughter grew up with as a major positive for her development into a caring and compassionate person. Kids of many colors playing together...living with the relative same challenges...and it seemed as natural as can be. And that is truly a key point here.
I think part of this issue is the source of diversity so-to-speak. We as a people, at least certain factions of our masses, tend to oppose the government mandates for say diversity, among other things. Perhaps it is the feeling of it being forced upon them and the legislation behind it is often faulty and full of inadequacies, regardless of its intentions. At least for debate's sake, Affirmative Action may be one of those mandates. It is the same way many of us oppose government intervention in our businesses. Think Wallmart and the cry for the government to enact legislation to "correct" their questionable hiring / benefit policies. For all those who call for administrative assistance in such manners, there are probably as many others who would prefer the government to stay out of it. They instead call for boycotting entities that have these questionable practices. The same mentality goes for questionable programming on TV. Instead of calling for more censorship, these people advocate simply choosing to not watch such things.
My older siblings were the hippies of the sixties and I heard Timothy Leary's words of Question Authority and Think For Yourself more than once in my youth. Didn't really understand it then but in today's political climate with the issues of socialism and personal liberties at the forefront, the relevance does not escape me. I am talking mostly about the challenges of human nature and the equally challenging, if not impossible, attempts to legislate equality and even morality. On top of that, the real risk of losing all freedoms to a government that arguably does not have our best interest in mind. Unfortunately, there will always be bigotry and prejudice so long as we imperfect beings are the subject. Tough stuff indeed.
As with all things, I believe the answers lie somewhere between the extremes of total anarchy and complete government control.
Blacks need to look into themselves and decide if current problems are echoes of the past or internalized perpetuation by ourselves.
I honestly feel that it's both. Many blacks are in the position to help ourselves, but many would like us to believe that the black community got itself into this mess.
Sure, on rare occasion I've been treated unfairly by people of diversity; however, I still love multiculturalism! Their parades and festivals are fun. And most of the diverse people are friendly enough for me.
I mean, what can you say? In today's post-Obama world I guess it's only fair to pretend that white men are a special group that are subjected to as much disenfranchisement and racial discrimination and profiling as minorities are.
While we're at it, let's go ahead and award reparations to the descendants of slave owners for their families' livelihoods being snatched away.
Hey Al! Take me to the river!
I remember applying for financial aid just prior to beginning my college education. I was the fifth of eight children in an Irish / Italian / Catholic household. My dad was a postal carrier, making all of $25k while raising us all. We were told we did not qualify for aid. So I did what any other person who truly wanted success did. I figured out another way to fund college...namely I worked part time. It was challenging but then satisfaction is earned...right? My dad, in all his Un PC ness told me that if we changed our name to Garcia, and moved over the hill, we could get aid. Ill founded and inaccurate sentiment on his part? Probably. But that was his generation's opinion of affirmative action.
As I have gone through life, I can't recall any special favors being done for me because of my ethnicity. In fact, I feel like I was just one of many multi-cultural people in a melting pot. My jobs have always been filled with a diverse crowd with many ethnicities and alternative lifestyles represented.
Hey while you are suggesting reparations for certain groups (early vocational training?), can you direct me to some of that white privilege I am hearing about?
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Alternatives? But what about my personal liberties?
