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Old 03-04-2011, 08:11 PM
 
1,519 posts, read 3,355,283 times
Reputation: 1429
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scarface713 View Post
Within 635? That's stretching it. Loop 12 is better, tbh. 635 isn't even a full loop.
Yeah, I'd say inside 635 is Dallas' inner core. All natives will tell you the same.
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Old 03-04-2011, 08:27 PM
 
250 posts, read 163,310 times
Reputation: 190
You guys can keep hyping the city of Dallas all you want, but you can also hype up dog poop too and say it tastes like ice cream. But no thanks - I will not eat any. LOL

Downtown is neat, uptown is very neat, Lakewood and a few other much smaller pockets of Dallas are nice looking too….

BUT ... as I said I own a couple businesses and lots of residential real estate too, ALL OVER DALLAS, and I get around. And I mean I get AROUND. I go to southeast Dallas, south Dallas, southwest Dallas, west Dallas, northwest Dallas, north Dallas, northeast Dallas, downtown, uptown, far north Dallas, YOU NAME IT. And the suburbs too...all on a fairly regular basis...pretty much all around DFW except for the extreme outlying suburbs (e.g. Waxahachie, Denton, etc). I and my employees go places most of you guys who live in the "nicer" parts of the city of Dallas would be afraid to go to anytime of the day. Most of the city of Dallas is not seen by the average person. And it is not beautiful. Houses are usually old & sometimes dumpy, streets have trash / litter on them, and there is little to no code enforcement. I spent all day today in south Dallas and southeast Dallas (yuck)...and trust me man, it is NOT beautiful unless you think the ghetto is something fabulous.

So yes, 80% of the city of Dallas is very poor and not very nice looking, plus the schools are not as good as the suburbs and the city services are not as good. How do I know? I go to Dallas daily, invest in Dallas, make a lot of money from Dallas and use the cities services...and also contribute a lot back to the city amazingly, in the form of property taxes and via my investments which create opportunities (jobs, clean & affordable places to live, etc) for others. But again, I wouldn't live there for anything.

The city of Dallas itself is a great place to work, but not a great place to live. =)

Highland Park or University Park are an absolute exception of course, but they are NOT in the city of Dallas. They are havens built by people looking to get away from the city, many years ago. And the suburbs are the same thing – just not as expensive (they lack the great appreciation since HP/UP are both in a prime, prime, prime location, have top notch schools and no more land to build on).
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Old 03-04-2011, 10:27 PM
 
Location: Washington D.C. By way of Texas
13,022 posts, read 13,474,797 times
Reputation: 4773
Well it comes down to a preference. Both sides make good points. I prefer the city because they have more arts, more culture, more diversity, more choices for fun, more soul, more character, better dining, etc. Frankly, the only thing the suburbs have over the inner city is that it's cleaner, newer, more space, and the schools are better. Other than that, give me the city anyday. It's just more interesting than any suburb could ever offer.

hamiltonpl, props to your posts especially this one:
Quote:
A few years ago we lost Boeing to Chicago. The CEO told us why, ironically, in Frisco. It was the fractured approach. He got requests from Plano, Arlington, Allen, McKinney and Dallas. Everybody wanted to be a General. Everybody thought they were the alpha dog. Boeing only wanted to look at Dallas. The company settled on Chicago because of the urban core. They wanted a city. This fractured approach hurts the entire region. It needs to stop. Places where suburbs rule have seen their economies tank.
It really sucks that Dallas goes through this with their suburbs and most other cities around the nation do not.
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Old 03-05-2011, 06:44 AM
 
Location: Richardson, TX
14,523 posts, read 11,815,717 times
Reputation: 10932
Speaking as someone who was born and raised in Dallas, I think there are two factors that let Dallas down:

1.) City management. It has always been a joke.
2.) The school district. It's mostly an expensive daycare system and has been as long as I can remember.

Until Dallas addresses those two issues, people are going to continue to hype CoCo and DeCo over Dallas.

Speaking for myself, I bought in Richardson for several reasons. Richardson is in a "sweet spot" for commuting and isn't too far from Dallas's core. Closer than Plano, Allen, McKinney, etc., anyway. Richardson has outstanding schools which are good for home values. And homes are still affordable here. My neighborhood is 50+ years old and has tons of character plus low crime and good schools...and I got in for under $200k. That's very hard to do in Dallas. You can check some of those boxes there for that price, but I didn't find a single area that fit the bill like this one did.

Also, Richardson's city management is top-notch compared to Dallas's. I really have no complaints. I've even run into Richardson city council members on weekends while out shopping and they're as professional and friendly as they are when acting in their "official capacities." They also show up for our neighborhood association meetings and stay and answer every question that the residents have. They're great.
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Old 03-05-2011, 10:39 AM
 
104 posts, read 154,752 times
Reputation: 30
which condos in downtown are empty? i'm looking for a condo (2b/2ba) near UTSW for under $120k, all i can find is older apartment buildings, some slightly updated some not so much. but no nice condo buildings with amenities like a gym.

also, i'm looking to buy downtown to live there myself for the next 3 years, if not longer. is this a terrible investment? will i make my money back (and hopefully then some) when i resell?
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Old 03-05-2011, 10:42 AM
 
Location: Mckinney
255 posts, read 196,565 times
Reputation: 162
Quote:
Originally Posted by justaskin View Post
which condos in downtown are empty? i'm looking for a condo (2b/2ba) near UTSW for under $120k, all i can find is older apartment buildings, some slightly updated some not so much. but no nice condo buildings with amenities like a gym.
Its the price range you are looking at. If you were looking around 240k and up you kind find alot of stuff. At 120k, its going to be old stuff.
FYI. Try if at all possible to get 3 bed rooms, the resale difference is tremendous between 2 bed and 3 bed.
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Old 03-05-2011, 01:28 PM
 
Location: At your mama's house
967 posts, read 878,159 times
Reputation: 1106
The 'urban' (and I use that term loosely for a suburban "city" such as Dallas) snob crowd get their panties in a wad when people point out why the suburbs are more appealing in the Metroplex, but I can certainly see where both sides are coming from. As long as Dallas is perceived to be a sanctuary city for illegals with bad schools, it's not going to be appealing to middle class families. Sure, there are a few parts of Inner-Dallas that are appealing, but those areas are too expensive for the average middle class family struggling to make ends meet, so people will continue to vote with their feet.

People move to the Metroplex for jobs, cheap houses and to raise their families. That type of lifestyle is offered in abundance in the sprawling suburbs surrounding the inner cores of Ft. Worth and Dallas. People who are looking for a more "urban" experience look elsewhere.

People who move there tend to have the attitude that "Newer is better," so the older areas aren't as appreciated by them the way they'd appeal to someone on the East Coast and the footprint of the metro area spreads ever outward. My Ex-Sister-In-Law remembers when Plano was nothing but a cow pasture and empty fields barely 30-40 years ago. People who tend to move to Texas couldn't care less about "green" or "sustainable" living and look at it with suspicion and disdain. Americans like their space and the Texas metros offer cheap McMansions, so as long as this mentality exists, I don't see the flight to the burbs changing anytime soon.

Meanwhile, given Dallas' reputation as a conservative, business-oriented city, the 'cool' types who have been flocking to re-gentrifying inner-core areas in the past decade will bypass Dallas for real cities such as SF, NYC, Chicago, etc. Hell, creative types who consider Texas usually end up in Austin rather than Houston or Dallas or SA.

As I said before, the parallels between Dallas and Detroit really aren't that far off...Dallas competes with its burbs for business, tax dollars, and middle-class flight just like Detroit does, not to mention there are too many gardeners (Plano, Irving/Las Colinas, Ft. Worth, Arlington) and not enough plants and flowers (Lewisville, Flower Mound, Cedar Hill and other assorted places who know their places as suburbs and secondary or tertiary cities). It's not as if this mentality is going to change overnight, so the "leadership" (and I DEFINITELY use that term loosely) that runs Dallas is going to have to figure out what to do instead of arguing with each other. Many of the "Good 'Ol Boys" and corporate oligarchies that have historically supported Dallas for years have made their moves to the burbs too and have no loyalty to the main city.

Perception is reality, so don't shoot the messenger sweeties Can't help it if I'm not all rose petals and cotton candy for you, but when y'all see my name, y'all know what time it is with me

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Old 03-05-2011, 01:28 PM
 
Location: Dallas
4,149 posts, read 4,005,669 times
Reputation: 2948
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark Serge View Post
Ding! Ding! Ding! If people from the suburbs think the city is sooooo bad, then perhaps help to bring it up a tad bit rather than draining it more and making it worse? Just an idea.
That's what happened in Detroit. DET was a city of almost 2 million in 1960 which has dropped to 900K now. That's more than 50% abandoned property and it sure shows. It's like a metro area with a hole right in the middle of it. Very sad - a true icon of human social dysfunction.

Most American cities' population took a dip from white flight in the civil rights era. Some like Boston and NY have fully recovered. The return to city life is fully bloomed and better than ever. Others like Buffalo and DET have not, and one wonders if they will. But I predict they will. Invariably the infrastructure one day will be recognized as a bargain opportunity.
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Old 03-05-2011, 02:54 PM
 
Location: Mckinney
255 posts, read 196,565 times
Reputation: 162
Quote:
Originally Posted by Overcooked_Oatmeal View Post
The 'urban' (and I use that term loosely for a suburban "city" such as Dallas) snob crowd get their panties in a wad when people point out why the suburbs are more appealing in the Metroplex, but I can certainly see where both sides are coming from. As long as Dallas is perceived to be a sanctuary city for illegals with bad schools, it's not going to be appealing to middle class families. Sure, there are a few parts of Inner-Dallas that are appealing, but those areas are too expensive for the average middle class family struggling to make ends meet, so people will continue to vote with their feet.

People move to the Metroplex for jobs, cheap houses and to raise their families. That type of lifestyle is offered in abundance in the sprawling suburbs surrounding the inner cores of Ft. Worth and Dallas. People who are looking for a more "urban" experience look elsewhere.

People who move there tend to have the attitude that "Newer is better," so the older areas aren't as appreciated by them the way they'd appeal to someone on the East Coast and the footprint of the metro area spreads ever outward. My Ex-Sister-In-Law remembers when Plano was nothing but a cow pasture and empty fields barely 30-40 years ago. People who tend to move to Texas couldn't care less about "green" or "sustainable" living and look at it with suspicion and disdain. Americans like their space and the Texas metros offer cheap McMansions, so as long as this mentality exists, I don't see the flight to the burbs changing anytime soon.

Meanwhile, given Dallas' reputation as a conservative, business-oriented city, the 'cool' types who have been flocking to re-gentrifying inner-core areas in the past decade will bypass Dallas for real cities such as SF, NYC, Chicago, etc. Hell, creative types who consider Texas usually end up in Austin rather than Houston or Dallas or SA.

As I said before, the parallels between Dallas and Detroit really aren't that far off...Dallas competes with its burbs for business, tax dollars, and middle-class flight just like Detroit does, not to mention there are too many gardeners (Plano, Irving/Las Colinas, Ft. Worth, Arlington) and not enough plants and flowers (Lewisville, Flower Mound, Cedar Hill and other assorted places who know their places as suburbs and secondary or tertiary cities). It's not as if this mentality is going to change overnight, so the "leadership" (and I DEFINITELY use that term loosely) that runs Dallas is going to have to figure out what to do instead of arguing with each other. Many of the "Good 'Ol Boys" and corporate oligarchies that have historically supported Dallas for years have made their moves to the burbs too and have no loyalty to the main city.

Perception is reality, so don't shoot the messenger sweeties Can't help it if I'm not all rose petals and cotton candy for you, but when y'all see my name, y'all know what time it is with me
Good post.
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Old 03-05-2011, 04:02 PM
 
Location: Orange County, CA
300 posts, read 702,478 times
Reputation: 174
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark Serge View Post
I tire of hearing about people wanting to move to "Dallas", when they really mean "Plano", "Garland", "Frisco", "McKinney", or some place similar.
Do you all feel that Dallas is the only place in America where people live in, say, McKinney but say they are from "Dallas"? Honestly?

Almost EVERY major city's suburban residents identify with the closest major city. Do you know how many MANY many people don't live in Los Angeles proper, but when asked where they are from or where they live reply with "Los Angeles"?. I think most people do this because its better than saying, to someone who doesn't know or live int he area, "a little town about 20 miles north of Dallas called McKinney". People just say "Dallas", because others know where "Dallas" is.

You sound like this only happens in Dallas. Im all about Texas right now, and Im all about embracing Dallas as a transplant, but holy hell....Dallas' population is smaller (by an entire MILLION) than the tiny "suburb" coastal county I currently live in in CA! Yes, a city (any city, other than perhaps NY or Chicago, where there are enough city residents to sustain that city alone) *may* be the place where the "arts" are and all the major shopping is...but it can BE there BECAUSE of the outlying population. Do you think when Chanel decides to open a boutique in a smaller major city such as Dallas, they only look at the Dallas proper demographics? NO. They look at the surrounding area, the despised suburbs, to get a complete picture of who will be helping that store stay open. I bet Dallas gets its fair share of tourism, but lets be honest...its no NY, LA or Chicago. The people who take part in all the "city offerings" (shopping, museums, theater, restaurants, etc.) are not just those that reside in the city. They are the people who want the best of both worlds. And thank the good lord there are still places in America were people can find that!

Now all ya'll shake hands and hug now!

Last edited by preppyglam; 03-05-2011 at 04:11 PM..
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