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Old 03-15-2011, 11:59 AM
 
Location: Wylie, Texas
1,110 posts, read 999,704 times
Reputation: 1353
Quote:
Originally Posted by EDS_ View Post
The Rainy Day Fund should be used only in cases where budget cutting is not possible.

From a purely economic perspective moving 100,000 teachers into the private sector would improve things not make things worse over the medium and long term - call it 6 months or greater. Texas created ~44,000 jobs last month. Teachers are smart and all of them, I think all of them, have degrees. UE amongst the college educated is not too much over historical norms in Texas right now.

The notion that tax payer funded jobs are as valuable in the economic sense as private sector jobs is bogus. If that were the case Cuba and the old Soviet Union would be the models.
Moving 100,000 teachers into the private sector would improve things??? wow...ok that's a first. I think that 1) You are far too optimistic on the odds of 100K teachers being able to transition into decent paying private jobs. Some with perhaps a math or science background may be able to do so, but it's highly unlikely that the majority will. For many that would involve either going back to school for a number of years (and lose earning power in the interim, not good news for a state that relies heavily on the sales taxes). But there is a good chance that the end result would be a permanent boosting of the unemployment rate instead. with all the attendant ills that come with that (foreclosures, higher crime etc)

The second problem with your statement is so how does the education system recover from losing 100K employees? How will the learning of the children be impacted by this? Larger class sizes, less accessibility to teachers due to overwork, reduction in achievement, etc

The third and final problem is the 44000 jobs you mentioned. I dont have the stats in front of me, but a sizeable chunk of those new jobs created were actually low paying service sector jobs, jobs that cannot support mortgages and other middle class amenities. So if a sizeable group of unemployed teachers regress from middle class to low/working class, how is this good for Texas?
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Old 03-15-2011, 12:00 PM
 
Location: ATX-HOU
5,446 posts, read 2,413,365 times
Reputation: 1310
Quote:
Originally Posted by EDS_ View Post
Nice try. Krugman, the most vocal of the neo-Keynesians, is way left of center. It's not even debatable. Krugman is much more liberal than Keynes himself was.

That said Krugman is a genius. I've sat in on some of his lectures. When it comes to blood guts economics, micro, macro, quantum or international, and the math that goes with each, he is a force. However, as with a lot of economists he allows his political leanings to drive his economic thinking. He admits as much.
But why would I think a nobel prize winning economist would know better than some guy on the internet who claims to own a company? Krugman also said it is better to work in a sweatshop than be unemployed.... love those liberals.

I could less about his political stance, which I doubt you believe I do not share. I use to be a proud Republican but this decade has taught me the truth: both sides are idiots.

Last edited by dv1033; 03-15-2011 at 12:06 PM.. Reason: Added more text
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Old 03-15-2011, 12:05 PM
 
Location: ATX-HOU
5,446 posts, read 2,413,365 times
Reputation: 1310
Quote:
Originally Posted by EDS_ View Post
I generally agree about the welfare state "situation" in California. It's unsustainable.
And how is what Texas has sustainable? And I'm not talking purely economically either.

Quote:
Bribes are illegal. Tax abatements, credits et al are not.
You are right. Legislatures have legalized bribes.
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Old 03-15-2011, 12:15 PM
 
3,333 posts, read 2,621,083 times
Reputation: 2021
Quote:
Originally Posted by dv1033 View Post
Um, no. Things aren't that simple.

First of all, throwing money into schools doesn't produce results, only spending smartly produces the right results.

Here's deal conservative dude from 1/2011, "Texas remains big, young and booming. The birthrate of its residents, the percentage of population under 18 and enrollment in public schools all rank second highest in the nation. Its residents are among the least taxed in the country, and likewise receive less in tax expenditures per capita. Texas leads the nation in job creation, and its surging population has earned it four new congressional districts. Those are the bright spots.
On the downside, what should be future strengths are undercut by debits. Texas has the highest percentage of adults and children without health insurance and ranks fourth in the percentage of children living in poverty. Texas has the lowest percentage of pregnant women receiving prenatal care in their first trimester. We spend less for mental health services per capita than any other state, and we're next to last in Medicaid coverage of the poor and per capita Medicaid expenditures.
Our schools may be packed with students, but they are not producing the well-educated young workers the state needs. We are in the bottom 10 in state and local expenditures per public school pupil, while the high school graduation rate ranks 43rd. The percentage of Texans 25 and older with a high school diploma or higher is the lowest in the nation"

Troubling report card: A legislative study finds Texas stands out in too many bad categories | Editorial | Chron.com - Houston Chronicle
The problem is you are not going to get what you want. If it sucks so badly here why not move to one of the high tax utopias where you would feel better?

Why in the world should Texas go left when that mind set has failed and failed miserably in California, Michigan, Illinois and especially Ohio.

Should Dallas become - Detroit, Cleveland, Dayton etc.?

Two things help paint a better context vis a vis Texas educational spending and outcomes.

1. When adjusted for regional costs Texas and California spend within a few dollars of each other per kid per year. The last time I looked the difference was less that $20 per kid.

1A. If raw dollars spent mattered most New Hampshire's #1 state spending ranking would yield better than about #30 on SAT scores.

2. Texas has a massive cadre of mostly Mexican legal and illegal aliens who account for most all of the outcome gap between Texas and other states.
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Old 03-15-2011, 12:23 PM
 
3,333 posts, read 2,621,083 times
Reputation: 2021
Quote:
Originally Posted by dv1033 View Post
But why would I think a nobel prize winning economist would know better than some guy on the internet who claims to own a company? Krugman also said it is better to work in a sweatshop than be unemployed.... love those liberals.

I could less about his political stance, which I doubt you believe I do not share. I use to be a proud Republican but this decade has taught me the truth: both sides are idiots.
So are you a Libertarian? That seems doubtful.

I have a MS in economics. I've personally attended lectures from econ-types across the spectrum ranging from Sen to Friedman.

I'm always ready for a precise debate about economics.

Also if you knew much about the topic you'd notice that I admire Keynes. How could I be some arch-conservative and admire someone so far left of center?
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Old 03-15-2011, 12:38 PM
 
15,960 posts, read 25,162,701 times
Reputation: 5884
Quote:
Originally Posted by EDS_ View Post
Perry is in a tough spot. He has to advance cuts in services, education is the largest user of state tax dollars.

.. leave the rainy day fund alone as that fund is critically important for our state.
So what is this I am hearing about Perry sending the word out privately but not publicly to GOP legislators that he will accept using part of the rainy day fund?
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Old 03-15-2011, 12:41 PM
 
3,333 posts, read 2,621,083 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lakewooder View Post
So what is this I am hearing about Perry sending the word out privately but not publicly to GOP legislators that he will accept using part of the rainy day fund?

I've heard the same thing.
I think using part of it - 10-30% - might be workable. Using it all is a non-starter. Even vaguely-conservative democrats won't go for that.
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Old 03-15-2011, 01:06 PM
 
15,960 posts, read 25,162,701 times
Reputation: 5884
Pitts: Perry, House have tentative deal to spend $3.2 billion of rainy-day $ | Trail Blazers Blog | dallasnews.com
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Old 03-15-2011, 01:28 PM
 
14,519 posts, read 26,657,880 times
Reputation: 5012
Texas has a massive cadre of mostly Mexican legal and illegal aliens who account for most all of the outcome gap between Texas and other states.

and California doesn't share that demographic--or Arizona--even Georgia with its carpet and poultry plants is seeing massing flux of legal and illegal aliens--usually Hispanic

and from what I have seen of the California public education system--to claim we are tied with it--is not good news...
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Old 03-15-2011, 02:55 PM
 
Location: ATX-HOU
5,446 posts, read 2,413,365 times
Reputation: 1310
Quote:
Originally Posted by EDS_ View Post
So are you a Libertarian? That seems doubtful.

I have a MS in economics. I've personally attended lectures from econ-types across the spectrum ranging from Sen to Friedman.

I'm always ready for a precise debate about economics.

Also if you knew much about the topic you'd notice that I admire Keynes. How could I be some arch-conservative and admire someone so far left of center?
I've already told you, I started my own party, the Pragmatic Party, but for simplicity's sake, I am an independent.

Perhaps we are more alike than we would like to be believe from our conversations. I have overall been vague about my solutions to these problems will being vocal about how our conservative leadership's solutions are incorrect. Perhaps me being branded a liberal led me to believe you were some sort of arch-conservative, but alas, I'm guilty of the same thing.
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